DeepSpecialization_EP 105_Arielle Cohen_Video_Edited_V2
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[00:00:00] I've noticed even a hundred million dollar companies where I, I've peeked behind the curtains. I've gotten to see [00:00:05] what they're doing right. I thought they had it all perfect and no [00:00:10] one has it perfect. And so stop looking for like, if you look for mistakes, you will find them. [00:00:15] So you have to stop like looking and, and digging too deep into things that you don't need to dig [00:00:20] too deep into.
[00:00:20] 'cause they're always gonna just keep bringing you down. Just focus on the KPIs. [00:00:25] Welcome to the Deep Specialization Podcast, the show where we blend focus, strategy, and [00:00:30] client intimacy in order to scale and simplify our businesses and our lives. I'm your host, [00:00:35] Corey Quinn. Let's jump into the show. My guest today is Ariel [00:00:40] Cohen.
[00:00:40] She is the CMO of Business 4 1 1, and the co-founder [00:00:45] and business partner at Marketing 4 1 1. Ariel has built a [00:00:50] multi seven figure agency and we're gonna hear all about how she [00:00:55] scaled it. I can't wait to get into it with her. Welcome, Ariel. [00:01:00] Thank you, Corey. It's great to be here and I'm excited to be an open book and share everything I've learned with everyone who's [00:01:05] listening in.
[00:01:06] Let's go. To start things off, could you just share [00:01:10] with us a little bit about Business 4 1 1 and Marketing 4 1 1? What are those businesses, how do [00:01:15] they relate to each other and, and whatnot? Yeah, so the 4 0 1 brand [00:01:20] overall caters to the roofing and construction industry. Okay. We have a really strong presence in [00:01:25] that industry, and we've divided our companies in a to a couple different ways.
[00:01:28] So we have Business 4 1 [00:01:30] 1, which is more of the education brand, where we actually create [00:01:35] SOPs processes first. We have the first ever white label roofing training manuals [00:01:40] that thousands of roofers use every day to grow their business and train their [00:01:45] teams. So that's on the business. 4 1 1 side, and then marketing 4 0 1 is exactly what it [00:01:50] sounds like.
[00:01:50] It's a full service agency, catering to the roofing and construction space. Which one [00:01:55] came first? So Business 4 0 1 came first. It was started before I was even [00:02:00] involved by my business partner, Liz. So she was really the visionary and the brains behind Business 4 [00:02:05] 1 1. And then naturally it grew into its path.
[00:02:07] And then her and I joined forces and created [00:02:10] marketing 4 1 1. Got it. And so at what point in the [00:02:15] lifecycle of business 4 0 1, did you come around? So I think the company business [00:02:20] forum was maybe within its first year or about a year old. Okay. Uhhuh. And then what was happening was they were getting [00:02:25] a lot of demand for marketing.
[00:02:26] And so the really, there was a need for, uh, [00:02:30] marketing education, marketing services. And so, you know, when you have people knocking [00:02:35] at your door enough times, you start to pay attention. Like, Hey, we need to offer this. And so that's kind of where [00:02:40] I came in and it made sense because I already had ran agencies before.
[00:02:44] It was [00:02:45] not like my first rodeo, so it was kind of the perfect fit. There was already a great audience. We [00:02:50] were already niched down and so I came in and applied what I knew on marketing and running agencies [00:02:55] to form marketing 4 1 1. So what, tell us a little bit more about your [00:03:00] background. What were you doing before you came on to business?
[00:03:02] 4 1 1 Started marketing 4 1 1. Yeah, [00:03:05] so I've definitely been through my fair share of businesses before I found something [00:03:10] that works. I was in the music industry when I was a little younger. I had created a music app, [00:03:15] an actual app, a technology that was for collaborations within the music industry. [00:03:20] So I had to run in the tech scene for a while and the music scene.
[00:03:23] And from there I really started to [00:03:25] become invested into learning about marketing because I knew that if I understand marketing, [00:03:30] it doesn't matter what business. What industry that I can make it successful. I knew that [00:03:35] marketing and sales was the one key factor in making any, anything you do successful.
[00:03:39] And so I [00:03:40] started to really dive into that world and, um, I had, you know, I actually, a lot of [00:03:45] people don't know this. I started off years and years ago before I was going to college at the time [00:03:50] as an intern in a marketing agency. And I ended up working my way from intern [00:03:55] to becoming a part owner of that agency.
[00:03:57] Oh my goodness.[00:04:00]
[00:04:01] When I ended up leaving that agency, I started my own thing. I [00:04:05] had another agency. I was doing great. I was enjoying it, but it was not niched [00:04:10] down. The agency was not niched down. And then I, I, but I did have that agency and then that's when I happened [00:04:15] to meet my now business partner, Liz and I, I kind of brought everything I was doing over into this [00:04:20] joint venture with her because it made sense.
[00:04:21] The timing was right and there was such a, [00:04:25] there was so much potential there, and I knew that if I applied my knowledge to this, we could really take [00:04:30] off. Okay. Couple quick questions on that. So when you were in college, [00:04:35] interning made your way into becoming part owner or partner in that, what type of agency [00:04:40] was that?
[00:04:41] It was just a generalist agency as well, so I've had two generalist. Okay. It was digital. [00:04:45] Digital marketing or, or is it design or, yeah. Okay. It was a full digital marketing [00:04:50] agency. Okay. And you guys targeted [00:04:55] anyone? Uh, generalist agency. Talk more about what that looked like, that agency. [00:05:00] It is rough to being a generalist agency.
[00:05:02] I'm gonna be honest. We did have a department where we really [00:05:05] had a focus in on dentists. And we had a certain program catered to the dental industry. But [00:05:10] we would take anyone and any, everyone that walked in, like if you had a budget and you could afford marketing, I would take [00:05:15] you on. So that would mean like beauty brands, food companies, a water company, [00:05:20] doctor's offices, gyms, roofers, like everything, roofers, plumbers, [00:05:25] home, kitchen remodeling.
[00:05:26] And that was. Still didn't know about [00:05:30] like niching down at that time. Yeah. I don't think it was as popular either. Like people weren't expressing it. Yeah. And [00:05:35] so I was working the hard way because what happened was, even though I understood marketing, I, I didn't know the [00:05:40] cost per leads in those industries.
[00:05:41] It was different each time. And so I was having trouble scaling because [00:05:45] there was turnover, because I just couldn't understand fast enough the industries that I was [00:05:50] catering to. You were trapped in what I call the generalist trap, right? It was [00:05:55] very common in in the, in the world we operate in. And so you left that at a certain point, [00:06:00] you started your own agency.
[00:06:01] Tell us about your own agency before you merged and created marketing. 4 0 [00:06:05] 1. Yeah. So when you're first starting your agency and you don't have the right training or [00:06:10] mentors to tell you, hey, like start off in a niche, you, you also do what you did before you start off [00:06:15] generalist. Sure. So at that point, you know, that was my full-time job was being an agency.
[00:06:19] And so I [00:06:20] would fo, I would again take on anyone that could pay, I would take on, and I had a really [00:06:25] great book of business. But there wasn't like a consistent formula, right? Everyone needed something a [00:06:30] little different. I didn't have my products, uh, like I didn't have things productized in a way that I could [00:06:35] actually scale it and have processes behind it.
[00:06:38] And we actually did a lot of media, [00:06:40] so I did a lot of video production at the time, which was really fun. I got to get out front in front [00:06:45] with brands and actually like film videos and do things to enhance their media presence as well. [00:06:50] So that was my own agency that I had that was generalist. So why not just continue [00:06:55] doing that?
[00:06:55] When you met the, the owner of business 4 0 1, like why, why not [00:07:00] just, you know, continue versus merge in? I, I could have, but when you see something [00:07:05] really great, you have to recognize it. And she's great at what she does. I mean, from the SOPs and things [00:07:10] she's created in the roofing industry, if anyone knows my business partner Liz, she is really, really [00:07:15] fantastic at that.
[00:07:15] So when you see something special and there's something there you have to recognize [00:07:20] opportunity and recognize. There's something you could do. And so it would've been silly for me to turn that [00:07:25] away. Funny enough, I probably work harder now than I did back when I had the other agency, but [00:07:30] that's because we're trying to build something really big.
[00:07:32] And so we had a choice. Like, yeah, I was building something. [00:07:35] In my opinion, it was good, it was stable. I had a great income and great balance. But [00:07:40] you know, building a small business is hard, but building a big business is hard too. So it's like choose your [00:07:45] path. Sure. And I knew I wanted to go bigger. Yeah.
[00:07:47] Different problems you're solving. What [00:07:50] about Liz? What about the business told you that it was something special? Help us understand what that was. Yeah. [00:07:55] Well for one, there was already a great audience and need and and demand. So that's number one. Right? [00:08:00] Anyone would love to walk into a situation where it's like, for us, a lot of people are like, oh, well leads are, leads are a [00:08:05] problem for us.
[00:08:05] Right? That's what a business, a lot of business owners say. For me, I never had that issue. Like we, [00:08:10] my problem was I couldn't get to the leads fast enough 'cause there was so many of them. Yeah. So it just [00:08:15] made sense. I mean that like that stood out to me. There was already demand in a market there and [00:08:20] the potential to really.
[00:08:21] Hone in on something that could help people [00:08:25] and help us grow to meet our goals. Yeah. So you came in to [00:08:30] Business 4 1 1 and your primary focus was to launch Marketing 4 1 1. Is that [00:08:35] effectively what, what it, what it was to capture the demand that was being created by the business 4 1 [00:08:40] 1 clients who were doing the more of the business operation work.
[00:08:43] Is that right? Definitely, [00:08:45] yes. Okay. So what did you do? You got hired and then what'd you do? Yeah, so when we, [00:08:50] uh, joined up and decided to go all in on this business venture, I did what I know how to do and that's build [00:08:55] marketing agencies. I had done it twice before, so I kind of had, I knew where I [00:09:00] needed to start and where I needed to go from there.
[00:09:03] And that was about four years ago now. [00:09:05] Okay. So what was, what was some of the first things you did to build the [00:09:10] agency? Yeah. So, okay. The first thing I did was obviously market [00:09:15] research. I need to know what I'm getting into. Okay. And then I need to understand what marketing could I [00:09:20] offer that is a good fit for this industry?
[00:09:22] 'cause not everything works for every industry and, [00:09:25] and they work in different ways. So you have to understand what is it that people actually need. And so [00:09:30] from there I created like our core offering. You could call it [00:09:35] and, um, immediately obviously went into sales mode because in my opinion, when you're [00:09:40] starting, unless you have the luxury of not being in a rush to make money, you need money to fuel the business.
[00:09:44] If you [00:09:45] wanna keep going, that's like one of the first points you need to get to is getting paying clients. So that's [00:09:50] immediately what we did. We started selling and then putting together the product on the backend and. [00:09:55] Making it better and better with each client and looking to like, drive some testimonials, [00:10:00] you know, see what's happening, build up those, that, those, that data.
[00:10:04] But custom, [00:10:05] getting customers and getting people on board quickly was the most important part. And so when [00:10:10] you did the market research, what'd you find out about roofers? What, what kind of marketing do they need? Oh, well, [00:10:15] that it's different now than it was back then, right? So four years ago we took a Google first [00:10:20] approach.
[00:10:20] We still do a lot of Google. However, the price has increased significantly [00:10:25] from then to now. They also didn't have programs like local service ads four years ago, that wasn't [00:10:30] even a thing. So there's been a lot of changes, but we went all in on Google first because we knew people [00:10:35] were searching actively for roofing.
[00:10:37] You know, homeowners were searching actively for roofers, [00:10:40] and they had high intent and they had a problem. And what's it today, how? [00:10:45] Today it's, well, it's not a one size fits all. So with marketing, [00:10:50] what works for one company will not work for another. I don't [00:10:55] care how great you are at marketing, it's not like you, you're never a hundred percent, like even if you have a great [00:11:00] strategy, I know there's still variations depending on the city, the market, the [00:11:05] budgets, like there's so many variables.
[00:11:07] So right now we have. Couple different [00:11:10] programs, but we stopped doing just Google and limiting ourselves. And now [00:11:15] we're full service where we offer Facebook ads and other forms of advertising because [00:11:20] we know that if Google doesn't work in that market, we can shift gears and actually focus on something like [00:11:25] Facebook, which will work in their market.
[00:11:27] Yep. That makes total sense. And so with this [00:11:30] need to generate sales really quickly, was it that you went into the business four. [00:11:35] Client. Client, the ones who have been raising their hands and saying, Hey, we we're looking for marketing too. [00:11:40] Like what should we do? Is that where you primarily started or how did you begin to start selling the, the agency [00:11:45] services?
[00:11:45] Yeah, so that was the low hanging fruit, right? There was already demand there. I was walking into [00:11:50] demand. So it was really just like getting those people who were asking for this [00:11:55] already, you know, into, into this program, into our new program. Sure. Yeah. [00:12:00] Is that still the case today? Is that the primary driver for the agency business or are you also [00:12:05] selling to folks who are not clients of Business 4 1 1?
[00:12:08] Yeah, so that was our [00:12:10] strategy for the last few years. As of this year 2025, we've really decided to branch [00:12:15] marketing 4 1 1 off into creating its own brand. So as of recently, we are [00:12:20] branding marketing 4 1 1 as a standalone as well as, you know, with. Business 4 [00:12:25] 1 1. But we really wanted to have its own identity and not just be fully reliant on the other side of the [00:12:30] brand and vice versa.
[00:12:31] So we're really starting to build that out. However, we [00:12:35] still do have, obviously the companies we're, we're, we're the same, we're in the same office, like we're [00:12:40] in, you know, the same ecosystem. So there's still the need there for those business 4 0 1 [00:12:45] clients. Where we will, you know, obviously get them into the marketing, but before it was just backend.
[00:12:48] Like no one even knew we [00:12:50] offered marketing. We didn't even tell people for the first few years. We just, people would come to us [00:12:55] naturally and then be like, okay, let's see if we could help you. Sure. So that's [00:13:00] super interesting. What, what was happening in the business last year or so that caused you to realize that, hey, we should start to [00:13:05] market this as a separate, standalone entity.
[00:13:08] Yeah. So you wanna never be [00:13:10] reliant on one source. That's what I tell my roofers as well because if something happens to that [00:13:15] one source, you lose your entire pipeline or you lose what your [00:13:20] potential is. So you wanna kind of diversify and build. We know how impacting building a [00:13:25] brand is 'cause we build roofing brands all the time.
[00:13:27] We teach building roofing brands, so we wanna like [00:13:30] practice what we preach. And so we knew there was gonna be a point where we wanted marketing 4 0 1. [00:13:35] Standalone have its own, you know, its brand identity as a marketing agency first and [00:13:40] foremost, that is a, you know, obviously partnership with Business 4 1 1, but still [00:13:45] has its own standalone.
[00:13:46] It just made sense. And plus, we're not limited to just roofers. If we wanted [00:13:50] to start building out into other contracting areas, you know, we can, we can go ahead and [00:13:55] do that by our go-to market strategies. I love the concept and the, uh, the practice of [00:14:00] building a brand. How, how are you doing that for both marketing 4 0 1 as [00:14:05] well as your roofing clients?
[00:14:07] Yeah, so I mean, with the roofing clients and with us, it's a, it's a [00:14:10] little bit different, right? We're in different industries. When it comes to us, the biggest thing is going to be [00:14:15] the content and education. We're really big on providing value first because when it [00:14:20] comes to marketing, there's a bad stigma.
[00:14:21] I'm sure any agency o owner that's ever taken a sales [00:14:25] call in their life can relate that they've heard something like, oh, I worked with an agency, had a terrible [00:14:30] experience. Right? These are the things, the objections we're having to overcome, and so. [00:14:35] If I provide value first and focus on the intention of like providing, uh, [00:14:40] education and just, you know, content that resonates, you're gonna have more trust.
[00:14:44] [00:14:45] And when you have trust, it becomes easier to overcome the objection of your previous experiences. [00:14:50] So from the marketing side, I think that content and that value and those resources are really important and [00:14:55] showing we're more than just that we're not, you know, we're not just gonna. Be silent. [00:15:00] We're really here as a partner and it, it's a two way street and setting those expectations.
[00:15:04] But then [00:15:05] from the roofer side, totally different strategy. I mean, we're talking every roofer. [00:15:10] Majority of roofers, especially the ones that don't work with us, they have like the generic roofing [00:15:15] logo, right? And their, their initials is the company name. Like just different things that we see that are not [00:15:20] gonna help them stand out because everybody has a roof line in their logo.
[00:15:23] So we come together to [00:15:25] create a brand that is actually gonna stand out in their market. So. [00:15:30] That's one really important thing. And then we even add, like we brought a lot of mascots into the roofing [00:15:35] industry. I think we've created like hundreds of mascots. Interesting. Yeah, so the [00:15:40] mascots, that was a big part of our earlier days too.
[00:15:42] Like we would bring, we would create [00:15:45] mascots for these. Roofing companies that would really make them stand out and have a playful twist to [00:15:50] their brand. Yeah. And just enhance what they're doing to be more memorable. Yeah. 'cause when their brand, when you [00:15:55] have a better brand, your marketing, your, your cost per leads are gonna get cheaper.
[00:15:59] You're gonna get more [00:16:00] referrals. Yeah. It builds everything. Yeah. So I've, I've been in the agency [00:16:05] space, uh, similar to you for, for some time now, and branding has [00:16:10] been my experience. Branding has been a hard thing to sell into SMBs, local service [00:16:15] businesses. In general, not always the more savvy ones get it, but the, certainly [00:16:20] the ones that are on the smaller side, their, their budgets are more precious.
[00:16:24] They need it to [00:16:25] go directly to lead gen 'cause they, you know, they, they need to eat what they kill and that whole [00:16:30] thing. And so I. Selling in a brand a, a [00:16:35] branding related product, which is overall helping to build brand [00:16:40] recognition and to build awareness and and recognition in the market. All those great things which [00:16:45] are not directly tied to the bottom of the funnel lead gen, it's hard to do.
[00:16:49] Do you include [00:16:50] that as part of your overall product or is that an add-on for a separate fee? The [00:16:55] whole, the brand building? Like how do you approach that from a position perspective? Yeah, we have a different department for branding. So it will [00:17:00] be, yeah, a separate program that we have that focuses on branding.
[00:17:04] 'cause that's a [00:17:05] different team that fulfills that. That's our design team versus like. Our, our actual like advertising specialist [00:17:10] team that focuses more on those advertising strategies. So they, they are separately built and [00:17:15] it's funny how things change. At one point, branding was like our forefront actually.
[00:17:19] A lot of [00:17:20] people came to us and knew us for branding and now we, we actually almost have like branding a little bit more [00:17:25] on the back end and marketing more of like the advertising on the front end. So it, it's just funny how things [00:17:30] change with the agency. See with time with what's happening in the industry.
[00:17:34] But I think [00:17:35] what people, what happens with roofing companies and in general is they get fomo. They see this other really [00:17:40] great brand and they know, well, shoot, I can keep playing it small and having this generic [00:17:45] logo, or I need to do something to stand out. And usually they, they trend to wanna not be [00:17:50] left behind and Right.
[00:17:51] They see this brand's dominating in their market, so they have to [00:17:55] keep up. Yeah. The marketplace creates the demand for the brand branding services. That's [00:18:00] awesome. You mentioned education is a big part of what you do to help build awareness [00:18:05] and effectively build trust With the marketing 4 0 1 brand, what type of things do you do to, [00:18:10] to drive so to, to build, sort of, do education content?
[00:18:13] Like what does that look like? Yeah, so [00:18:15] definitely, uh, we're starting to do more and more videos. Gonna be building up our YouTube channel, like we built up our [00:18:20] other channel, which is just like free content to help roofing companies and contractors. We're [00:18:25] doing like email, we're starting to do like email series, but the emails aren't asking, we're not trying to sell them anything.
[00:18:29] We're [00:18:30] literally just providing value. I also host a weekly class. Marketing mentorship [00:18:35] class where I train on different marketing techniques and strategies where roofers join every single week. [00:18:40] Is that a free class for the marketplace or is that something for your, just your clients or, yeah, so I offer it to [00:18:45] our clients and anyone on their teams.
[00:18:47] Okay, great. That's great. Value add. [00:18:50] Yep, yep. Just something you know, because I think one of the biggest things with clients is they're only gonna [00:18:55] leave you for two reasons. Communications and results. It's one of those two reasons. Every [00:19:00] single time, if you tie it back. Right, and so a lot of times there's.
[00:19:04] The [00:19:05] communication piece is what, where the missing part is. And so if I'm [00:19:10] teaching them every week, I help bridge any communication gaps because I'm educating them on [00:19:15] what they're looking at. Sometimes, uh, companies don't make the right decisions on marketing because they [00:19:20] don't know what they're looking at.
[00:19:20] They think something's wrong when indeed it's not. It just wasn't. Explain to [00:19:25] them. And so that marketing class that I do weekly helps kind of combat that so [00:19:30] everyone's on the same page because you can only feel good about something if you know, do you [00:19:35] have a sales team today or are you still running all the sales?
[00:19:38] So it's funny, we kind of chatted [00:19:40] about that a little bit. We do have a sales team on the other side of the business, [00:19:45] and we have one person on the marketing side, but we're actually restructuring our sales team right now [00:19:50] to kind of fuel the growth for, for 2025 and beyond. [00:19:55] I think that, I imagine that's been due in part to the fact that you're now breaking out as a separate [00:20:00] business unit that's gonna be building its own pipeline versus [00:20:05] depending exclusively or semi exclusively on business 4 0 1.
[00:20:08] Right. So you have to build out the sales team. Is [00:20:10] that right? Yeah, exactly. So we have a sales team, but we made the decision to branch when we were branching [00:20:15] off. Like, Hey, let's let our current sales team sell what they're really good at and what they know, and let's build out a [00:20:20] new team that focuses on the marketing side.
[00:20:22] Because what we didn't want is people focusing on too [00:20:25] many offers and it gets too confusing. So if we're gonna really build out these companies side by side, then we [00:20:30] need to treat them that way and have separate teams. So that's actually one of the biggest things we're doing right now. [00:20:35] Is building that out.
[00:20:36] So I will be hopping back into sales for the first time in a while, but [00:20:40] just to help kind of build out how I want it ran so that we can hire and grow accordingly. [00:20:45] Sure. Are you excited about that? Do you like, do you like the sales, putting the sales hat on? [00:20:50] Yes and no. Yes and no. I mean, I love, I love hearing what people, you know, are doing and, and kind of chatting, [00:20:55] but it is, you know, I think there's other areas that I can contribute more to.[00:21:00]
[00:21:00] So it's gonna be a very temporary thing. But I've always been, you know, when you're an agency [00:21:05] owner, a lot of times you can kind of do it all but you, that doesn't mean you should do it all. [00:21:10] Let's talk more about that. What, what are some areas where a founder should be getting out of the [00:21:15] way sooner than later?
[00:21:16] Like what are some of the first things that an agency founder should focus on? [00:21:20] Everything. You should get everything outta the way. I mean, like, you should literally delegate [00:21:25] everything because what happens is if you don't delegate, you build this terrible habit. [00:21:30] It becomes harder and harder to delegate as you're further in.
[00:21:34] So if you [00:21:35] do it from the very beginning, you're actually at an advantage because you are used to [00:21:40] that way. Right. And I think I heard someone say like some of the best business owners are the laziest. [00:21:45] And I know that might sound a little weird, but it's actually true when you think about it because you [00:21:50] know, if you're over here micromanaging and everything and controlling everything, and this person's being a real business owner and they're [00:21:55] at the beach relaxing while the company runs, which one do you, which lifestyle do you want?
[00:21:59] You have to decide [00:22:00] exactly. Exactly. So do you, do you recommend, [00:22:05] having been through this now, do you recommend that you, that agency founders who, [00:22:10] let's call it, they, you know, let's, let's call it they wanna be more lazy, or in other words that [00:22:15] they find ways to not get stuck in doing everything, is the best way [00:22:20] to just hire a big team?
[00:22:21] Or is there a better way to kind of help to build some of that [00:22:25] scale in the agency? And yeah, forget the word lazy. That's just a funny joke. But [00:22:30] I call it the freedom finder method. The freedom finder method. That's what I actually call it, [00:22:35] because that's what you're trying to do. You're not lazy to be.
[00:22:38] And so [00:22:40] a hundred percent. I think that you need to build a team right away. And [00:22:45] when you're building an organization, an agency, or any business, you don't necessarily [00:22:50] have the funds to do that right away. And so one of the things I really, [00:22:55] really love doing is building an outsource team, meaning an overseas team.[00:23:00]
[00:23:01] Whether you're just starting or even in scale mode, like even if you [00:23:05] have a seven figure agency, there's still value to building outsource [00:23:10] teams that have been very rewarding in many ways and have impacted our [00:23:15] business and our profit margin. Sure. Is there a specific function in the agency [00:23:20] that the, that they should start on building out this team, this overseas team?
[00:23:24] For [00:23:25] example, fulfillment, marketing, sales, project management. Like where, where should people [00:23:30] start? The thing they hate doing the most, they should get that off their plate. The [00:23:35] thing it like, you know, if you don't like doing sales, then you need to get someone to do sales. If you don't like actually doing the fulfillment and [00:23:40] being stuck behind the computer doing a, the fulfillment, then that's what you need to outsource.
[00:23:43] That's what you need to start building a [00:23:45] team around. Because, um, with the Freedom Finder method, this method that I've been [00:23:50] creating, the whole concept is that. You listen in any role, even if [00:23:55] you own the business or in any job, you are gonna have things that you don't like to do. [00:24:00] It's, it's gonna happen.
[00:24:01] Even if you love what you do, there's gonna be certain things. And so [00:24:05] there's like this formula where like if you're not doing 80%. Because listen, there's gonna be [00:24:10] that 20% that comes to your plate that you just have to deal with. It's the name of the game. But if you're not 80% of [00:24:15] what you do on a day-to-day doing what you love, then your formula is off.[00:24:20]
[00:24:20] So let's say a founder who's listening to us right now says, okay, I know immediately [00:24:25] sales I don't like it. Which, which they do next. How do they get go from that [00:24:30] spot to having a team member who is crushing it in sales? [00:24:35] Yeah, so I mean they ob, there's a couple ways they can do it. They obviously need to hire somebody.[00:24:40]
[00:24:40] They need to hire someone, and that person's just gonna depend. Sales is not a role I would [00:24:45] go that cheap on, because sales is gonna drive revenue. So a good quality salesperson [00:24:50] is gonna fuel the business. The business is growth. So I would go ahead and I would [00:24:55] use online sources. I would use, like Indeed, I would use Facebook, I would use [00:25:00] Upwork, I would use LinkedIn, and I would find someone I could bring on for sales who can [00:25:05] either A, help me even build out the process of the sales team.
[00:25:09] And actually [00:25:10] live, do it and help me grow a sales team. That would probably be where I would start. If I don't have any [00:25:15] sales processes in place, you need someone to help you do it. Yeah. And that type of, that first hire, [00:25:20] yes, you might need to make an investment in that person, but it's worth it. [00:25:25] You mentioned that.
[00:25:25] Say I, I love that. And, um, I, by the way, I know that, uh, I believe you're, you're [00:25:30] also a fan of Dan Martel. I've read his book, buy Back Your Time. Yeah, so I, I keep thinking [00:25:35] about the, the buyback ladder, right? Where he talks about you start off in, [00:25:40] first get an assistant and then you replace yourself with operations and then marketing [00:25:45] and sales, and then leadership.
[00:25:46] But I like your point around the fact that if it's something you don't like [00:25:50] doing, it's a requirement to be successful, you don't like doing it, start there because then you [00:25:55] could ultimately spend more time doing the things you do love. I think that's really smart. Yeah, because you wanna [00:26:00] be happy while building.
[00:26:01] You don't wanna be stressed, like you don't wanna be stressed building your company [00:26:05] and doing something you hate every single day. That's not why you started your own company. And so I'm telling you, [00:26:10] so you have to learn that the hard way, right? Like you gotta, you have to get rid of that. You have to have that [00:26:15] freedom finder method, that 80% of doing what you love day in and day out.
[00:26:19] What is [00:26:20] your approach on hiring great virtual assistants? VAs. Yes, [00:26:25] so I love working with VAs. I've actually switched our model. We have our in-house team, but [00:26:30] we're more and more incorporating different VAs or outsourced team members onto our team for [00:26:35] many different roles. I would say what's very important is one is the [00:26:40] vetting process, the interview process, making sure expectations are clear.
[00:26:44] One [00:26:45] thing I do not really sacrifice is like English level. Like making [00:26:50] sure they, I can understand them and they can understand me. If you're bilingual, great. Like if the person speaks Spanish, [00:26:55] that's fine too, right? But just making sure there's that communication levels there, because that's really important.
[00:26:59] [00:27:00] So vetting the VAs to make sure they have the right experience of what I'm looking for [00:27:05] is very important. So that would be the starting point. And then the training [00:27:10] process, how you train them and what you set, the expectations is gonna set the tone [00:27:15] for the rest of the role. What type of training needs to be in place to really set up a VA for [00:27:20] success?
[00:27:21] So I like to do like a 30 day math, 30 day training, 30 day of what I [00:27:25] expect I should say. You know, I don't train for 30 days typically, but I do have expectations. But by [00:27:30] that, by the end of these 30 days, we need to be at this point. And if we're not, something's wrong. Yeah. [00:27:35] Yeah. And so there's like a 30 day roadmap I use where [00:27:40] I make sure there's certain KPIs reporting in place.
[00:27:43] Like I know what those [00:27:45] expectations are, they're defined enough, and I even write down the schedule for them. Like I know [00:27:50] sometimes people are like, oh, hey, check your emails, right? General statement. But I notice if you [00:27:55] say, check your emails or check my emails, like my VA goes through my emails. If I just say, Hey, va, like.[00:28:00]
[00:28:00] Check my emails, right? They're not gonna do it the way I want them to do it. You have to be [00:28:05] very specific. So I record a video. I make sure they have it like really laid out [00:28:10] with them of like, here's how I want you to check the emails so that I know they're doing it in [00:28:15] the way that I expect them to. So there's a little bit more guidance I would say with VAs [00:28:20] because they are virtual, so you just give them the exact way.
[00:28:23] They're not mind. No one's a mind reader. [00:28:25] So you need to give them the exact way you want it done. Sure. And [00:28:30] are there any roles, if you're using VAs in your business and you have a great training [00:28:35] process, you're getting great results. In your experience, are there any roles that people should just not [00:28:40] hire overseas for that they should have locally in the building with you?[00:28:45]
[00:28:45] Yeah, so that's a great question. It depends on the industry. If we're referring to [00:28:50] agencies, I can't think of something necessarily besides being like [00:28:55] the CEO themselves. I really can't think of anything that you can't [00:29:00] outsource successfully. Okay. So then therefore, [00:29:05] should agencies have a physical office?
[00:29:09] Ooh, that is a [00:29:10] great question. It really depends on your model. So like here we have a physical office because we [00:29:15] decided we have a hundred person classroom, a contractor's classroom where people fly from all over the [00:29:20] country to learn from us for three days. I literally have people outside right now. I.
[00:29:23] We have about 50 [00:29:25] companies outside of my office right now learning that my, my business partner's teaching. [00:29:30] So for us, it made sense to have a physical office. Yep. So really just, it depends on what [00:29:35] your strategy is. For us, it made sense, but I definitely see more and more [00:29:40] people going the virtual route.
[00:29:42] And not having offices and, and saving [00:29:45] that expense and, and doing like, more so like team meetups, like, like everyone going to Mexico and [00:29:50] like having a vacation together and making that like more about the synergy. And I'm seeing even huge [00:29:55] companies that are not having physical offices because what happens is you limit yourself to the talent in [00:30:00] that area as opposed to having worldwide talent.
[00:30:04] [00:30:05] Yeah. In other words, so to sort of paraphrase what, what you shared, are you saying that it doesn't, [00:30:10] you don't have to have a physical office to be successful as long as it doesn't, your business model doesn't [00:30:15] require it? Exactly. Yeah. Okay. But I agree. I'd rather [00:30:20] spend the money that would otherwise go to rent to go fly everyone out to Cancun and [00:30:25] you know, have margaritas on the beach.
[00:30:27] Definitely. Yeah.[00:30:30]
[00:30:33] So I know that you mentioned that [00:30:35] Liz is amazing with SOPs and processes, and I imagine that that is [00:30:40] true in in the Marketing 4 1 1 World as well. What's a good process for creating [00:30:45] an SOPA standard operating procedure? Like what, what are the, what are the basic steps to, to [00:30:50] documenting those? Yeah, I think it's understanding and having clarity on what you're even looking to [00:30:55] accomplish.
[00:30:55] There's been times where I wrote SOPs and I was like, wait, what was I even trying to accomplish here? Like, let's go back. So [00:31:00] like having complete clarity when you go into it is gonna help, because sometimes you wanna keep [00:31:05] sos to. Solve what it is you're trying to solve, right? And, and, [00:31:10] and streamline what you're trying to streamline and not be all over the place.
[00:31:13] I prefer a more like deep dive [00:31:15] SOP than like a broad one. Yeah. So I think having clarity on what you're trying to do and [00:31:20] then documenting it out and then using like chat GPT to make it even better. [00:31:25] Obviously, like I'll do the initial layout and then I'll use AI to help me make that layout better. [00:31:30] And then what you have to do is actually apply it in real life to make sure it's practical, and then you have to [00:31:35] record a video of you showing how it works step by step.
[00:31:38] So I have three things. I have it written [00:31:40] out. I then have screenshots of the step by step. I do a live training, and [00:31:45] then that live training's recorded, and also in the SOP. So there's like no way you could [00:31:50] misunderstand or miss a step. What's a. A [00:31:55] situation where let's say an agency has a library of SOPs.
[00:31:59] It's all [00:32:00] documented, it's all beautiful, but no one uses them. So here's what you should do. We actually ran [00:32:05] into that issue because we had all these great SOPs, but it's like very common. Each one's the most essentials. And [00:32:10] so what I did was I actually took from a library of hundreds of SOPs, I started [00:32:15] saying with each department, what are the top 10?
[00:32:17] Like, if you had only these 10 and nothing [00:32:20] else, you could successfully do your job. And that's, and I created like a master [00:32:25] document, like a master folder that had those 10, those 10 SOPs only. [00:32:30] So it's not like it's not cluttered by all the other different SOPs, right? It's more like, [00:32:35] Hey, here's the top 10 things, and I'll give you an example in the sales process, right?
[00:32:39] If you're [00:32:40] hiring a new salesperson, my top 10, for example, is things like my customer profile. [00:32:45] Our programs appointment setting formula, our [00:32:50] discovery call script, our CRM and follow up management, like [00:32:55] those are. And then I think our ni our, our 30 day onboarding, like those are the nine or, [00:33:00] or however many, like those are the few that I have in there that if you have those, you will be able to perform your job [00:33:05] successfully.
[00:33:06] Yeah. And how do you track and make [00:33:10] sure your employees are actually following the. So we use [00:33:15] stoplight reports where every week we have certain KPIs that are being reported and [00:33:20] we use the, like the, you know, red, yellow, green, like the, the stoplight approach there. So it's [00:33:25] very, every week we all get together as a team and we go through these numbers in the departments.[00:33:30]
[00:33:30] Yeah. That's awesome. So you've been at this business venture for four [00:33:35] years. And I imagine the person you are today is different than the person you [00:33:40] were four years ago when you started. What are some of the big, sort of 10 x jumps in [00:33:45] you as a leader, as a manager, as a, as an owner that really had an impact on the [00:33:50] business?
[00:33:51] Oh my. That is such a great question. Definitely always learning and always [00:33:55] growing, but I would say like. You are your biggest roadblock. So [00:34:00] like I was my biggest roadblock. Like anywhere we didn't reach, I take full responsibility. I don't [00:34:05] blame my team most of the time. Yeah. I don't blame my partners. I blame myself.
[00:34:08] And so like just [00:34:10] overcoming my own mental hurdles and things that were holding me back. From [00:34:15] growing has been one of the biggest growth accelerators. I think the other thing is delegation, [00:34:20] understanding how to, and I'm still constantly getting better of how to empower our [00:34:25] team rather than just doing it for them or, or trying to have control all the time, but [00:34:30] letting go of that control and empowering our team to be leaders.
[00:34:33] Innovators, that was another big [00:34:35] one that I think helped us get to where we are now, is building that and continuing to build that. [00:34:40] What's one maybe example of something that you struggled to delegate that you should have [00:34:45] delegated a while ago? Oh my gosh. Too many things. Too many [00:34:50] things. That's why I can speak to it.
[00:34:51] Yeah. So let's see. Where do I start? [00:34:55] Okay. Uh, presentations. I, I still was making my own presentations and I didn't need [00:35:00] to be doing that. First of all, AI could do that or a VA can do it. Yeah. So that was one thing I could delegate. [00:35:05] Also, having to be involved with every single client. I thought if there was a client issue [00:35:10] or something that I needed to be involved to like save the day and have that hero complex of like, oh, I'm [00:35:15] the only one who could save it.
[00:35:16] And now I have this like kind of chain where everybody [00:35:20] knows how they can deal with it. It doesn't have to come to me if it's a problem [00:35:25] because problems, you know, those types of things are draining. And I have, we have teams that can deal with [00:35:30] those, especially with the right. Processes should know how to deal with them and be able to get them.
[00:35:34] And, and ever [00:35:35] since I've stepped away from that, I've been happier and my team's has been doing a great job doing what they do best. [00:35:40] They're closest with the clients. Yeah. So I think the biggest thing as a business, and this is at any [00:35:45] size, like I've noticed even a hundred million dollar companies where I, I've peeked behind the curtains, I've gotten [00:35:50] to see what they're doing right.
[00:35:52] I thought they had it all perfect and [00:35:55] no one has it perfect. And so stop looking for, like, if you look for mistakes, you will [00:36:00] find them. So you have to stop like looking and, and digging too deep into things that you don't [00:36:05] need to dig too deep into. 'cause they're always gonna just keep bringing you down.
[00:36:08] Just focus on the [00:36:10] KPIs. Yeah. Isn't it interesting that, I mean, I keep coming back to this, the [00:36:15] thought which is that being a business owner and growing a business [00:36:20] is. On a parallel path, a personal growth journey to understand like where am I [00:36:25] getting in my own way, right? And being able to be honest with ourselves about what [00:36:30] are those things, and then finding better ways to doing those things.
[00:36:33] So [00:36:35] I dunno if you feel the same way. I 100% feel the, feel the same way. I mean, it's [00:36:40] really whatever you imagine you can do if you just get out of your own way and, and, and just go for it. [00:36:45] And so, yeah. And, and trust other people to help you along the way. You can't hoard everything. You're [00:36:50] not Superman, superwoman.
[00:36:51] You can't do it yourself. Yeah. You know, rely on others. There's a [00:36:55] great book called The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John C. Maxwell. [00:37:00] It's about these different laws, about growing, about leading and, and growing businesses. And I think one of the first [00:37:05] laws is the law of the lid, which is that the company can only grow as fast as the limitations, [00:37:10] the, the, the, let's call 'em, limiting beliefs of the leader.
[00:37:13] So [00:37:15] I'm always reminded of that. You mentioned that you're gonna be. Potentially [00:37:20] going out to other home service businesses, expanding the scope outside of [00:37:25] roofers. Right. Is there, in your mind, having done this, this vertical strategy [00:37:30] for a bit now, and also having been a journalist before, are there any downsides to taking a [00:37:35] vertical market approach in your mind?
[00:37:37] Into going all in on one [00:37:40] vertical. Correct. Or, or maybe a couple, uh, over time, but having that [00:37:45] specialization, that deep specialization in one, it will only benefit you. I mean, like, talk about [00:37:50] things that I could have gotten to where I wanted to get faster. Right. Yeah. Is. Focusing in on [00:37:55] one industry and understanding, yeah, there is so much there.
[00:37:59] [00:38:00] You can make so much, you could hit all your goals just by focusing on one industry and [00:38:05] really make an impact. So yeah, there is a huge difference, and I would recommend to anybody who has an [00:38:10] agency to dial in and dial down because you'll start to really, really build a mark. [00:38:15] Yeah. In the industry that you're servicing, how are you approaching [00:38:20] finding the next industry or vertical market to target outside of roofers?
[00:38:24] So a, a [00:38:25] couple things. The demand, once again, like our customers tell us what they want and what they [00:38:30] need, and so when you're a roofing company or a contractor, there's other kind of [00:38:35] sub-services that people do within that business. Like they don't just do roofing. And so it's very [00:38:40] natural for us to say, okay, well you also do gutters or siting, or.
[00:38:44] [00:38:45] Construction and like, so there's these other industries that are already kind of very [00:38:50] closely tied to our core industry that we can start expanding out to, and the demands there, [00:38:55] people are asking for it. So a lot of times when we're running ads for roofing companies, we're already doing ads [00:39:00] for gutters, for siting, for construct, for these other things that they offer.
[00:39:04] So it's very [00:39:05] natural to expand out. Yep. That reminds me back at Scorpion when we [00:39:10] started in home services, it was plumbers, but then a lot of larger plumbers also do [00:39:15] HVAC and they also do electric electricians as well. And so we [00:39:20] realized like, hey, there's a lot of these kind of very related or shoulder niches that [00:39:25] were.
[00:39:25] Meaningful to our clients, and so therefore, we naturally did probably [00:39:30] something very similar to what you are in the middle of, which is finding those areas, those pockets of [00:39:35] opportunity. That's just kind of a natural conversation with your existing leads. It's really cool. [00:39:40] Yep. Sounds the same. Yeah. So [00:39:45] I just have two more questions for you, Ariel.
[00:39:47] The first one is. [00:39:50] What would be your, let's call it parting advice for an agency founder who [00:39:55] is maybe frustrated because they're, they're struggling to do too many different things. [00:40:00] They're not making progress. Maybe they're a generalist and they're really looking to scale. What are some of the things that [00:40:05] they should do immediately to start moving towards more of a scaled up business model?
[00:40:09] Hire a [00:40:10] virtual assistant for themselves and delegate as much as they can so they could focus on actual growth of the [00:40:15] company and stop doing daily things that do not move the needle. Yeah, that is the biggest one I [00:40:20] could think of that will allow you to get all those tasks that are so time consuming, but not important [00:40:25] out of your way.
[00:40:26] And even if you don't, you might not even realize you're doing it every single day. [00:40:30] Yeah. Like how many, how much time do you spend checking your email?[00:40:35]
[00:40:36] A hundred percent. You need to offload all of that, get that out of [00:40:40] your way, have a helper in your corner so that you can focus on the thing that's actually gonna [00:40:45] drive your business forward. Like sales? Yeah, like fulfillment, like, you know, those important, [00:40:50] uh, like those partnerships, right? Those are the things that are gonna get you to the next place.
[00:40:54] [00:40:55] Wonderful. Last question. What's your motivation? Yeah, so [00:41:00] my motivation, oh, I can answer this in a couple different ways, but more now than ever it's to impact [00:41:05] others at one point in my life, and I just actually got off the stage here and, and spoke about this, so it's, [00:41:10] it's funny you're asking it, but especially when I was younger, at one point in my life, I really cared [00:41:15] about making money that was important to me.
[00:41:17] I was really focused on the financial benefit of having a [00:41:20] business. And then when I started to hit, you know, we're in this multi seven figure market. We're obviously wanting to [00:41:25] grow that those metrics are important to us. But more and more my life's [00:41:30] become about how can I help others? How can I impact others?
[00:41:33] And so there becomes a [00:41:35] point where I. You know, those financial goals can only get you so far where it's like you [00:41:40] need something else that really fulfills you. And for me it's just trying to figure out ways to continue to [00:41:45] help others. And that's one of the things I love about using virtual assistants and outsource teams [00:41:50] because you know, Corey, as you know, the worldwide, we don't, [00:41:55] they don't have the opportunities that we have here in the us.
[00:41:57] And so through [00:42:00] this company, not only have I been able to impact. My team members or my [00:42:05] clients, but actually my team, I mean by hiring overseas, there's been people on my team. They bought [00:42:10] the first car in their family history. They sent their brother or sister to college. They sent their [00:42:15] kid to private school.
[00:42:15] 'cause there's not good schools in, uh, Brazil. One of my guys told me. So he sent them to a [00:42:20] school where they could actually learn English and be safe and things like that. And that feels good. I've [00:42:25] impacted their lives. And so that's one of the also the benefits and, and in exchange they're extremely [00:42:30] loyal and dedicated to, to under, to building, to, to helping us hit our company goal.
[00:42:34] And so [00:42:35] it's a win-win. And so I'm just looking at how I can continue to serve and impact others. [00:42:40] Fantastic. I, I'm thinking of my own assistant. She's in the Philippines. She lives in a small [00:42:45] farm town. And she's a wonderful, [00:42:50] well-educated, eager young mom, and she's just a [00:42:55] wonderful, wonderful resource that I'm just so blessed to have her a part of our team, and then [00:43:00] as well as, yeah, the, the work that we give her is very meaningful.
[00:43:04] So I can see [00:43:05] that in my life as well. Ariel, thank you so much for coming on. That was awesome. You [00:43:10] shared a ton of wisdom. I learned a lot. I'm sure the audience did as well. So thank you so much for coming on. [00:43:15] Thank you for having me. Yeah, I appreciate it. I am happy to help other, uh, agency owners for sure.[00:43:20]
[00:43:20] Where can people reach out to learn more about you and get in contact? Yeah, so they can reach out on [00:43:25] social. Facebook, Instagram, it's at Ariel ceo. Okay, [00:43:30] awesome. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks Cory. Thanks for tuning into the Deep Specialization [00:43:35] podcast. Are you ready to find out if your agency is built to scale?
[00:43:39] [00:43:40] Take my free five minute. Agency Growth Score [00:43:45] [email protected]. That's agency growth score.com and get [00:43:50] tailored insights across your positioning, marketing and sales systems. [00:43:55] Also, be sure to subscribe for more episodes that help you specialize and [00:44:00] scale your sales with dream clients.
