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[00:00:00] And the, uh, the intro is pre recorded, so I'm just going to jump right into, uh, introducing you.
[00:00:13] Today, I'm joined by the CEO and founder of Predictive ROI, Stephen Walsh. Oh, great. Here we go. How do I pronounce your last name? The O is silent. So it's Wessner. The O is silent. Just like there's no O. Thank you. I would have, would not have guessed that. [00:00:30] Wessner. Okay. Good German name. Yeah, which is ironic since I'm very little German, I just found out anyway.
[00:00:38] So, okay, here we go. Here we go. Today. Today, I'm joined by the CEO and founder of Predictive ROI, Stephen Wessner. Welcome Stephen. Uh, thanks very much, Corey. And I appreciate the invitation and really looking forward to our conversation. Likewise. By the way, did I get your last name correct this [00:01:00] time? You did, you did.
[00:01:04] But you know what, if you would have hit it right the first time, I would have been super impressed because like, you know, 1 percent of people actually get it right. So it's tricky. So, but, but thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely. You have, you have a, uh, um, a tricky, like you said, a tricky last name. So I appreciate your patience with me, uh, as we jump in here.
[00:01:23] So tell us a little bit about Predictive ROI and the work you do and who you serve. So [00:01:30] Predictive, um, is an agency that serves agencies and, and we designed the business to help our agency clients, you know, sell more of what they do, candidly. Um, and in particular, sell more of what they do for a higher fee.
[00:01:45] Um, so we're about 13, 14 years old. I started the business in 2009. Uh, I've been in the agency space, uh, consulting space for pretty much my entire career. So let's call that 30 plus years. Um, but, but I had a little [00:02:00] bit of a stint, uh, if you will, about six years, uh, at the University of Wisconsin. So I worked for the UW system.
[00:02:06] My home campus was UW lacrosse, but I taught throughout. Uh, the system, including UW Madison at the School of Business. And, and it was there that I wrote, uh, my first couple of books, a book on search, a book on social. And then, you know, started getting some requests to do some consulting, do this, do that, you know, whatever.
[00:02:23] And then pretty soon that turned into something interesting. And I was like, well, you know, I think I kind of want to experiment with this a little bit [00:02:30] further. So I left the university and, uh, Um, and then, and then, and then it started to grow. So, so that was, that was fun. And so now, you know, 12, 13 years later, um, we have this really amazing business and this really awesome community of agency owners and strategic consultants looking to sell more of what they do, but looking for ways to do that.
[00:02:51] And in, in the process that we teach or the methodology that we teach is based on the book that Drew McClellan, CEO of [00:03:00] Agency Management Institute and I wrote, uh, called Sell With Authority. And it's, and it's a sales methodology, but it's based on. Uh, developing a position of authority, which is not a quick fix.
[00:03:12] It takes a lot of work. It takes, uh, some smarts to, uh, distill down into the, the niche that you want to serve and then really leaning into that niche, um, with, with content that is incredibly helpful and realizing that it could be a day or a decade before somebody raises [00:03:30] their hand and says, Hey, can you help me with that?
[00:03:32] Um, but it's a sales process that doesn't feel schmutzy. Um, and, and you sell more of your smarts as opposed to deliverables. And it's, it's been a, a wonderful and helpful methodology to lots of people. Awesome. Well, that is a big part of the reason why I wanted to have you on the show. I really want to unpack that for the, uh, to really understand the mechanics behind how all of that works so that, that, uh, we can, we can, uh, hopefully [00:04:00] help some of the audience here.
[00:04:01] So I wanted to dig in a little bit about what you were sharing just there, which is that, um, you, you mentioned you help agencies, um, sell more of what they do, charge a premium. But you did also mention that it takes a long time. Um, can you talk a bit more about like, what does that, what does that look like?
[00:04:21] What, what, um, how much time does it take to really build authority for an agency? Yeah, it's, it's an excellent [00:04:30] question. And, and one that Drew and I felt pretty strongly about to. Uh, to talk about in, in the book and it's specifically because it's not a quick fix. It's certainly not a get rich quick scheme.
[00:04:42] Um, building a position of authority to be a trusted known expert takes time. You don't wake up one day, put your feet on the floor and say, you know what? I'm going to be an expert in X. Market, whatever. It takes time. And so what we described in the book is, is that from, you know, like your first six months, you're really [00:05:00] figuring out the niche and the point of view.
[00:05:01] You're starting to create some content. Maybe you're building an audience around a podcast or a video series, or maybe you decided to write a book, or maybe it's a research study. Whatever that piece of cornerstone content is, but it's going to take several months to get that off of the ground. And then between month six and 12, you start building a little bit of a reputation.
[00:05:19] People are listening to your episodes or watching your videos or you're building a following on LinkedIn. And in the second year, you're starting to see a steady stream [00:05:30] of, of right fit prospects because your content should help attract right fit, but it should also. Repel, wrong fit, uh, great marketing does both attraction and repelling at the same time.
[00:05:43] And then by year three or four, this is now turned into a mechanized operation. Right. So it does take time. This is something that does take time. So I, you know, I've been around for a bit and my, [00:06:00] my sense is after speaking with a number of agency owners, myself, that it's no real surprise. I would say that content is needed to really help build authority, but with so much content that's out there today, what, what type of content does an agency owner who really does want to become known and be seen as an authority in a space?
[00:06:20] Like what, what type of content? Do they need to invest in and focus in on? Well, and so it's, it's not only the type of content, but it's then also the [00:06:30] consistency. One of the things that, uh, that we know to be true is that, uh, agencies unfortunately are consistently inconsistent. It's not a podcast, it's not a blog post, it's not a white book, uh, or, um, or, or whatever.
[00:06:46] It's, it's, or a white paper is what I meant to say, or an ebook. Um, it's, it's developing a consistent, like if we're going to plant our flag of authority and, and, and when we say plant our flag of authority, we're talking about three different ingredients in [00:07:00] that recipe, which means getting really clear on the niche, getting really clear on your point of view.
[00:07:06] And, and that in and of itself helps make the content unique and different as far as cutting through the clutter, right? So that it doesn't sound like the next Pablum blog post about, you know, whatever the color of the year is. And then number three, the third ingredient is being consistent with cornerstone and cobblestone content.
[00:07:24] And so that might be a weekly podcast that is then sliced and diced into smaller cobblestones. [00:07:30] Could be social media, could be emails, could be checklists, those types of things, and then doing it. Week after week. year after year, so that you build out this body of work. I think oftentimes what happens is somebody might get excited.
[00:07:44] We're going to do a deep dive into content. We're going to jump into the deep end of the pool, and we're going to get super excited and we're going to launch a podcast. And after seven episodes, they stop. That's called pod fading or they're going to do a video series And then they stop, or they're going to produce a white [00:08:00] paper, and then they stop, or they're going to build out a resource library that instead of becoming 19 or 20 things, it's 3.
[00:08:08] And so I think it's, it's the consistency. So content stands out when it's aligned with point of view and it's aligned with niche. And you're saying something that is interesting. You're not trying to be interested or show your prospects that you're interested, but you're being interesting and then doing it week [00:08:30] after week after week after week.
[00:08:32] Right. So, uh, with that in mind, does the, does the medium really matter? Like, could it be, you know, podcasts or does it need to be a nice, a nice mix of blog and podcasts and social media and organic and those types of things? Yeah, I think Joe Polizzi actually said this best. So I'm going to quote Joe here real quick.
[00:08:52] Uh, back in the 2021, and I think this is in his book too, Content Inc. He talked about that, start with one channel. [00:09:00] So let's say podcast, um, start with one channel and be really great and really nail it and really build the show into something that you're proud of that builds a following and, and you've, you've, you're squeezing every ounce of juice that you can out of that particular opportunity and you're really, really great.
[00:09:24] And then once you've, once you've reached that level of excellence, then you might add a blog [00:09:30] or a video series or a something or a whatever. Um, and so instead of, you know, going from, gosh, uh, I've really been eating unhealthy for the last 20 years, but I have seen the error of my ways. And starting tomorrow, I am going to Planet Fitness and I am eating five salads a day and doing all of these different things.
[00:09:54] And that's obviously going to burn out really quickly, right? So master one thing and do it [00:10:00] with excellence. Then add another and then add another and then add another but it doesn't is as long as the cornerstone content It's really important for the cornerstone in this case podcast or video series or whatever that it just aligns really well With the talent of the person so like you are obviously hosting a great podcast Probably because you enjoy hosting podcasts and doing interviews, right?
[00:10:25] Um, so I think pick a, pick a channel that aligns [00:10:30] well with what you like to do. Otherwise, you're going to burn out and it's going to stop. Yeah, I, I subscribed to that, that feeling as well. I know that, you know, um, a lot of folks are talking about how you need to do YouTube videos and you need to. do a newsletter and so on and so forth.
[00:10:47] And I think, um, when it comes to the consistency that you're speaking to, being able to choose the, the, the, the medium, I should say, not the vertical, the medium that, um, that you're interested in, that [00:11:00] you, that you want to wake up and create content for, or else it just, you're not going to be able to. To, to, to last the distance if it's, if it's something that causes friction internally, right?
[00:11:10] You want to, you got to want to be able to do it to hit the, to, to hit the, uh, the timelines. You, you need to see the results. Uh, you mentioned the concept of niche a number of times. I'm sure we're all, you know, we're all familiar with what niche is, but what does it mean to you specifically when you're advising your clients?
[00:11:26] What, how do you tell them to focus on a niche? Like what is a niche? How do you [00:11:30] define that? So the way that we define it, and, so Drew and I actually devoted a couple of chapters to this, and the way that we define it is actually maybe a little bit different than what someone might assume, because I think the assumption is when someone hears the word niche, The thing, Oh my gosh, you're going to tell me that I can only work with, uh, manufacturers of capital equipment, you know, made of extruded aluminum.
[00:11:56] But no, uh, it certainly can mean industry, [00:12:00] but the way that we define it is four different ingredients in sort of the niche cookie. And it can be any of those four ingredients or It can be all four of those ingredients. Um, so you can kind of knit that together in a number of different ways. Uh, the more ingredients you include, the better tasting the cookie.
[00:12:17] And so the first ingredient is industry. Yup. You know, industry. We're, we're going to work with dentists. Or whatever, just making up an example. Um, or it could be audience. Like [00:12:30] maybe, you know, your client's audience better than they do. That's a huge strength. And, and if you know their audience better than them, Oh my gosh, then you're taking your opportunity to own a strategic seat at the table.
[00:12:44] Like whatever exponential number that might be. So industry, audience, third is superpower. Maybe you have this technical skillset in a particular thing, SEO, PPC, programmatic, PR, [00:13:00] whatever. You've got a particular point of view around that particular superpower. That is this world class the way that you and your team do the thing.
[00:13:11] So that's the third ingredient. And then the fourth ingredient is business issue or challenge. Like when a client walks in your door or sends you an email and says, Hey, we're dealing with fill in the blank. And if you look at that email and go, Oh my gosh, we are so going to totally destroy this. Because you guys just crushed that [00:13:30] business issue or challenge.
[00:13:32] Every time, like, like back in the days of Scorpion, when, when your personal injury attorneys would, would get in touch with Scorpion and say, Oh my gosh, we have this issue, this issue, this issue, this issue. You're like, yep, we crush that every single day for the personal injury attorneys that we work with.
[00:13:48] Right? So you have a depth of expertise around a business issue and challenge. So, now if you knit all four, you toss in all four of those ingredients into the bowl, you got a really good tasting [00:14:00] cookie, but you can absolutely build a niche. Around one and just, just for clarity, for at least for my purposes, can you, can you give an example of what an audience is?
[00:14:12] Sure. So, um, I'll, I'll give a predictive example. So for us, our audience, uh, our agency owners, we, we, we know agency owners really, really well. So, so our industry, so this, this is how we've knitted together niche, right? So like our industry agency owners, [00:14:30] our audience agency owners. Uh, number three, superpower is help them fill their sales pipeline.
[00:14:37] Uh, the, the issue or business issue or challenge is not knowing who to sell to, what to sell or how to sell it. You knit all of that together. It's a pretty strong niche, right? So, so that's, that's the audience is how that plays out into fruition for us. Okay. That makes sense. And then, um, one of the, one of the things that I [00:15:00] hear as a concern, uh, from an agency owner is, hey, you know, I get niching, there's riches in the niches and all that, but I just don't like the idea of narrowing my target audience.
[00:15:13] How do you, how do you You know handle that type of conversation when you hear that. Yeah, gosh, um, so you taught me this case study I should think to use this case study next next time somebody asks me this question because sometimes the question is Well, [00:15:30] I I don't want to commit myself to just this niche We like doing all of these other things and that's fine If you want if if somebody wants to be a generalist, you can certainly scale the business in all of that It will just take you longer going niche and going narrow to your point.
[00:15:45] Riches and niches helps you monetize scale faster, more efficiently, and more profitably. But the, the case study that you taught me, like when you were a guest on my show and we walked through Scorpion and how Scorpion really [00:16:00] grew and how you talked about Scorpion really zeroed in on personal injury attorneys.
[00:16:06] And really got that dialed in had inbound and outbound outbound sales team crushing it and so forth Then you guys made a conscious decision to add another like division if you will Yeah, and then you took that same recipe Completely different team and then crushed that new vertical Using your words, that new vertical, right?
[00:16:27] And so it isn't about, [00:16:30] again, like being confined into and only doing that thing. It's you, it's taking a page out of your playbook of, okay, we're going to crush this here in this niche, and we're going to build a completely different business unit, and we're going to take that same methodology and apply it here and do it here and here and here and here.
[00:16:49] Brilliant. And that's, that's, um, the way, the way we think about it. So, um, back then, it aligns exactly with one of the four ingredients here, which is the business issue. [00:17:00] It's a local service business, happened to be attorneys. We asked ourselves, who else had a local marketing problem that was a service business?
[00:17:07] Well, it happened to be home services and whatnot. So that's, that's awesome. Um, point of view. Is the next sort of, um, cornerstone piece. I think you call it cornerstones, but the next real big part of the strategy, you mentioned niches for a second is point of view. Um, I think point of view is. Um, probably the, one of the most important things, maybe more than [00:17:30] positioning today for agencies is having a strong point of view.
[00:17:33] Um, and so we'd love to hear your thoughts on what, what do you mean by point of view? What does that mean? How do you create a point of view for an agency? Okay. Uh, but so I'm going to, I'm going to share this, but I, but just to give you fair warning, I know this is your show, but I, I want to turn the tables on you and cause I'd love to hear your take.
[00:17:54] Or your point of view on point of view too. Okay. Uh, cause I think that would be a really, really good. [00:18:00] Uh, and I'd like to learn something from you too. And I'm sure your audience would like to learn that from you as well. So, uh, let's, so our point of view on point of view is, is that this is what, this is what tells your audience why you give a rip, like why you're all about them winning.
[00:18:20] And, and so it, it, it predictive, we'll say some things like. We believe that most agencies go about business development in the most painful, least [00:18:30] effective way possible. And we know there's a better way. And we call it the sell with authority methodology. Oh, well, what does that mean? Uh, and then, and then that, you know, starts a conversation.
[00:18:38] Um, but it is, at least I hope that it's clear that when somebody consumes our content, it is clear as to who we're for and who we're not for, and that we're all about our audience winning and in that it is deeply emotional for us. you know, their win or loss. [00:19:00] And so I think point of view, it cuts through the clutter of, um, sort of the noise, because it's very, very clear as to why this person is doing what it is that they're doing.
[00:19:15] Not just to make a buck. I mean, that, that, that aligns with, with how I think about it as well. I think, you know, there's, there's the idea in marketing and positioning around getting really clear and being able to articulate what the [00:19:30] problem is you solve. Like, you know, being able to articulate the, the, the challenge I think agencies have is that.
[00:19:36] Most agencies are solving the same problem, and no matter how you say it, you're solving, we're all solving, you know, a lead gen problem, or a growth problem, or a revenue problem, as relates to digital marketing agencies, specifically around direct response, and so, by being able to articulate the problem you solve, that, that's good, you need to be able to do that, but that's not enough to differentiate, because it's guaranteed, [00:20:00] All the other firms that are focusing in on attorneys are saying the same problem.
[00:20:04] We're going to help you get better cases and higher value cases and so on and so forth. So you, you can't just stop with that sort of that, that positioning around the problem we solve. My belief and what I've seen work really well is bringing in a very strong point of view, which is Um, driven by, and you said it, it's driven by not only, um, um, having a, [00:20:30] well, let me back up.
[00:20:30] So, the presupposition is that. Um, you are focused on a specific niche or an industry, let's say the construction industry and, um, as an example, and in fact, I'll give you an example of a, of a, um, of an agency that does this really well. It's called Phaser Marketing. And what Phaser has done is that their point of view is that, um, that the industry.
[00:20:58] has, uh, the [00:21:00] construction industry, specifically blue collar jobs, has a bad rap. And they believe that, uh, and they exist to help make a difference in re framing that and re, um, um, you know, reversing that negative or that potentially negative connotation about working in the trades. That today it's not as, uh, not as, um, Uh, you know, attractive of a career path than, than other alternatives.
[00:21:27] And so part of their point of view is we [00:21:30] exist to help to grow the trades and to help and part of the way we're doing that is we're, we're doing things like Um, we now, they now have a foundation and a scholarship where they will give, uh, they will give a student who is exiting high school and going into the trades, they will give them a big scholarship, as an example.
[00:21:51] And they do a lot of work around raising the visibility and the, uh, the viability of careers in the trades. That is an agency. [00:22:00] That, um, is very clear in the market that when you work with them, you're not just working with an agency that cares about Google and cost per click and all those things, they care about those things, but they also care about helping to make the industry, to move the industry forward.
[00:22:13] They're a part of that solution. So the subtext there is that they truly care, not just about, uh, making money themselves, they actually care about making a difference for the people they serve. So the context is much bigger and that, as a result of that, they create more, um, uh, a [00:22:30] greater connection with their clients.
[00:22:31] So let's stay with this example. I remember you sharing that example with me when I was interviewing you and I thought it was really brilliant then and it's just as brilliant now. So let's do a little bit of role play. Let's say that, um, that you're the CMO of a large contractor and I'm from Phaser and I just, and I shared, uh, our point of view.
[00:22:54] There's very situational as, as you just described it, you're the CMO, you're evaluating phaser. [00:23:00] How does that make you feel evaluating us versus others that might be in the mix for due diligence? Does that make us stand out because of what phaser just shared with you? Well, it's, it's hard, almost hard for me to be objective at this point because I, I believe so wholeheartedly in the power of doing this.
[00:23:17] I, I believe so. Um, and they, they, yeah, so the short answer is yes. I believe that they, as a result of that, they are able to, at least at a [00:23:30] very basic level, differentiate, uh, from any other agency that just, You know, uses the same kind of, um, uh, attributes around where I'm at, you know, we're an extension of your team and all these other things.
[00:23:43] This, this, this is truly a differentiator in my perspective. Agreed. Yeah. Very powerful one. I think so. And I think, um, Agencies need to do a better job, uh, around communicating why they care specifically about the [00:24:00] industries that they serve. Fair point. You're, you're, you're right. Just, just saying that you're plugged in, that you've been in the space for a long time, that you have other work in the area with, you know, tangible examples and case studies and so forth.
[00:24:15] That's FASER example. Because like when you first shared that with me, I thought, okay, that's, that is really great for the vertical that they're pursuing. But then I thought, gosh, can I think of another [00:24:30] agency that is really leaning into the vertical like that saying, we are one of you. So, um, Edelman PR does this really wonderful study every, every year, the trust barometer that I'm sure you're familiar with.
[00:24:44] And it's fantastic. And so the, they've been doing it now for, uh, like I said, two decades, they survey 37, 000 people a year. I mean, this is a really big study. It's international across, I think, 37, 40 countries, something like that. And they showed that, that [00:25:00] the, the groups of people who are building trust and authority, it's not the celebrities.
[00:25:05] It's not the paid endorsers or anything like that. It's people who are, who look just like them. Yeah. Right. So the average person. That looks just like them. So the thing that I think is brilliant about what Phaser is doing is that they're locking arms with people in the industry and then going to prospective clients and saying, not only do we know your industry, we are you.
[00:25:28] And not only do we [00:25:30] want you to succeed by the work that we're going to do, but we're actually funding growth. We want more people to come into the trades and we're putting our money where our mouth is. That is so powerful. That's it right there. Being able to not just give lip service, but to say, Hey, we're spending our time, our resources, and we are promoting this.
[00:25:49] And here's the evidence being able to, to show that is like, you can't argue with that. Right. So that, that, that goes back to the [00:26:00] point of point of view, which is to be differentiated, to not just, you know, be focused on a niche. Personal Injury Attorneys, but it's to have something to say that's interesting and that is aligned with the interests of the vertical that you're targeting.
[00:26:14] Amen. The third one, uh, the third, the third pillar, uh, is, and I'm, maybe I didn't, maybe I didn't write this down. I've, I've, uh, I wrote down being consistent with the content. Um, and we've already kind of, kind of [00:26:30] touched on that. Um, at what point, at what point do you,
[00:26:37] Do you determine that you've established yourself as an authority? Is there a way to measure that along the way? Yeah, I think your audience tells you. It actually drives me bananas when people self anoint themselves as a thought leader or an authority in a certain space or whatever. I think your audience tells you.
[00:26:58] I think your audience [00:27:00] shows because they're showing up and they're reading your emails and they're coming to your Q and A's and they're coming to your intensives or they're coming in, in, uh, in support of you and other ways is your sales pipeline full. So I, I think the litmus test is, is the business moving forward?
[00:27:17] Is the audience growing? Are you getting good feedback? Have you built a Facebook group or LinkedIn group or whatever? Like where's the watering hole that you have built? built and are people coming in, are people being helpful? And, and, [00:27:30] and are you building community? Those are those in our opinion, those are sort of the outward like litmus tests or listening posts or whatever word you want to call it of like what we're doing matters and it's being helpful to people.
[00:27:45] Yeah. Shifting gears a little bit, um, how do you coach agencies on their sales process specifically? Most, most agency sales or a lot of agency sales, especially the sort of the larger deals are, um, led through sort [00:28:00] of a sales team with sales motion. Like, what are some best practices for agencies who are?
[00:28:06] over the phone as an example. Yeah, I, I think the, the, the agencies that we're typically working with are, um, in the, let's call it between the, the two to 10 million a year. So small to midsize agencies. And in putting a sales process in place is something that might be really new for them. [00:28:30] And so they don't have a team of sales development representatives.
[00:28:34] They don't have somebody sitting in the center role. They don't have somebody who is firmly. Seated in the closer role, they don't have process that's built between those three roles. It might be the owner, it might be maybe they hired a director of business development. So it's part of that is, is putting in a system of, okay, this is how we're gonna grow the audience, or how you should grow the audience.
[00:28:56] This is how then you should nurture the audience. And then this is how you move [00:29:00] into the kind of the sales process with not without feeling shwarmy So essentially it's create great content create an opportunity for the content to move into the nurture piece So someone can step into your list That is not an opportunity to get shwarmy and jump all over them like run toward the deer like drew and I talked about in The book but it's an opportunity to treat that with respect sort of guard their inbox with the velvet rope continue to be helpful and And then multiple times a [00:29:30] year, sometimes it might be an open mic Q& A, maybe it's a, you know, something deeper like an intensive, maybe it's a half day session, whatever, but they're at a regular cadence throughout the year.
[00:29:40] We call those transitional moments. It's an opportunity for someone to raise their hand, take their level of trust and context deeper with you, you to show up with the best of what you got and to teach. And then, and then a sales downstream, you know, from that event. Now, it doesn't mean that the business development process is just tied to [00:30:00] an event.
[00:30:00] You know, when you have a really good email list or really great community on LinkedIn, every six to eight weeks, there can certainly be like an outbound, we call that kind of the hand raise, you know, email. Um, so working all of that into a process and system, uh, is important, but, but here again, oftentimes it's like, well, I'm going to do one of those things.
[00:30:22] And then that's not really a system. That's not really an inbound and an outbound approach. Um, and so there's a, a lot of, a lot of things [00:30:30] missing, uh, if we don't do it all. What? So, so just to kind of recap that a little bit, so you're, you're creating this amazing content that's, that's focused on a niche as a strong point of view, you're driving authority and awareness in the market, and then you create an event that gives people opportunity to step into the, you know, to get to know you more and help you to build trust, add more value.
[00:30:52] What's a, what's a typical event that you recommend to your clients that they do? For, you know, to [00:31:00] create more, um, sort of engagement with their target audience. Okay. Um, so I'll answer that, but then there's also an in between step because so sometimes what we find is that agencies are really great at creating that cornerstone content, the big meaty pieces of content, the podcast, the video series, maybe it's a research study.
[00:31:22] But then where the missed opportunity is taking that research or the book or whatever they invested a lot of time and effort in, and then slicing and dicing [00:31:30] it into the smaller cobblestones, and then the smaller cobblestones are the path into the list, right? So creating this
[00:31:45] and being able to provide lots of different from your macro audience can say, Hey, Corey, that was really smart. I'd like to learn more. Can I download a thing or whatever? So then there's a resource library and that kind of thing or whatever. And that's [00:32:00] So obviously you have an audience then that you can invite to the transitional moment.
[00:32:05] And so typically, you know, we would suggest that if you've, if you've never hosted a transitional moment before, start small, have an open mic Q& A, invite people about a topic. Or invite people to come learn about a particular topic that you know is creating pain for them. Teach something smart and interesting for about 10 or 15 minutes.
[00:32:28] Doesn't have to be a professional [00:32:30] slide deck, doesn't have to be a real big thing. Teach for 10 or 15 minutes about something interesting. And then go open mic for 45 minutes and just answer questions. Super informal. And how do you, how do you get, what's the mechanism to get people on? Um, on your email list, is that the smaller cobblestones?
[00:32:51] Is that kind of a gated type of a situation? Yeah, your, your cobblestones, not all of them are going to be gated. Let's say that 70 percent of them are gated, 30 [00:33:00] percent of them are not. Um, so a small cobblestone might be a long form LinkedIn post. And then, uh, you know, uh, it. Supporting like in a company video or something like that.
[00:33:08] That's obviously not gated, but it's still a cobblestone. Um, and then another cobblestone might be, um, you know, building out a resource library with guides and checklists all of that kind of stuff. Right. So like our, our predictive ROI resource library, there's 19 different things, frameworks, guides, checklists, books, all of it.
[00:33:26] And it's all free, but that stuff is gated. [00:33:30] There's plenty of ungated content, but the resource library is gated. Got it. And the assumption is that someone, if someone's interested in that content, they're going to, um, they'd be willing to share their email address in exchange for, uh, getting that. And that's a, that's a higher value sort of, um, that's an indication that they have a pain point that you guys can probably solve.
[00:33:52] Thereby inviting to the Q& A. Right. And, and so like, um, so we built out a, when I [00:34:00] mentioned the, the, you know, who to sell to, what to sell and how to sell it, that's our who, what, how. So we've built three different frameworks, the who framework, the what framework, the how framework. So like predictive ROI. com slash who is the who framework.
[00:34:14] And when somebody goes to that page, there's 16 minutes. I'm biased of good training around the who framework and then, but it's, it's there in full transparency. It's there me on screen. I'm drawing through the who framework and showing how to fill it out and why it's important and all of [00:34:30] that, the nine different boxes and how to do it.
[00:34:32] And then if somebody wants to download it, they certainly can from that page first name, email, and then they can get it. They do not step into some crazy goofy sales funnel where they get pounced on because that feels yucky. But then the next time that we have a Q and a They'll, they'll be sure to get an invitation.
[00:34:51] That's super cool. Um, you mentioned a little bit of outbound. Do you, do you, um, advise [00:35:00] going, you know, hiring these like LinkedIn, third party companies to do LinkedIn prospecting or, or cold calling? Do you, do you ever get involved in those types of activities for your agencies? We do. Um, and so, uh, we, we call that sales pipeline ignition.
[00:35:14] I, I, I know we're not here to talk about predictive service levels, but, um, you know, LinkedIn is something that we've done for well over a decade. And it is something that we do on a daily basis, not just for predictive, but then for our clients, because. Um, that it [00:35:30] gives you such a great opportunity to find the exact right fit using tools like Sales Navigator, all the stuff that you know, and it's very super targeted.
[00:35:39] And so, but you can also be really shwarmy on LinkedIn in a hurry. And so what we, what we do in LinkedIn is we want to connect and then we send something that we think is interesting, like a piece of, uh, again, a cobblestone piece of content. And it's even smaller inside LinkedIn. We call it a golden nugget.
[00:35:58] So we share a golden [00:36:00] nugget, and then maybe another golden nugget, and then another golden nugget. And then we give an opportunity to step into our list, and then when there's a Q& A, we actually do a lot of invitations, like hundreds a day of invitations inside LinkedIn in order to help build audience for whatever the thing is.
[00:36:18] That's awesome. And, and obviously you've seen, you've seen some good success there for your, it sounds like for yourself and for your clients, which is great to hear. It's encouraging. Um, I have, [00:36:30] um, just, just two more questions for you as we wrap up here, uh, first one is, you mentioned you work with agencies that are doing between 2 million and 10 million.
[00:36:39] Um, what is the. Yeah, average, um, on, you know, in general, but, uh, what are the challenges that they're, that they're dealing with that caused them to reach out and want to get, you know, maybe join one of these Q& A, like, what are some of the symptoms that are going on in their agency that you guys help address?
[00:36:57] So that's really why we've leaned [00:37:00] into the who, what, how we, we hear oftentimes predictive. We don't know where our next new client is going to come from. We've built the business. Praise God. We've built the business primarily on referrals and yay for that word of mouth has been awesome. Our reputation is stellar and we get a steady stream.
[00:37:16] Yay for that. But the, and referrals are great most of the time. Um, and, and so, but we're not sure who we're going to sell to next in order to continue to scale the business. So that's the who piece, [00:37:30] right? Finding out who that right fit client avatar is so that you can build a community around that, build an audience around that, and then never have to wonder where your next new client's going to come from.
[00:37:39] Second is then what? We're not sure. Like if someone came knocking on our door, we're not sure what we're going to sell. That might sound really ridiculous from a two to 10 million agency, but you know, they, they may just be doing a myriad of different things. And so being able to. Simplify that down into what not, [00:38:00] when I say one core offer, that doesn't mean the only thing that they're going to sell, but designing what we call the hero offer that makes them so easy to say yes to, for example, many agencies give away their discovery work.
[00:38:11] We're big fans of repackaging that together and selling that at a premium price. And getting paid for that work as opposed to just baking it in and hoping you're going to make it back on the back end 12 months later. Um, so that's, that's the what piece. And then lastly, it's the how, how are we going to sell this?
[00:38:28] Like, how are we going to put an [00:38:30] SDR process in place, a setter process in place? And, and then, uh, a process for the closer. How do those three roles, and is it one person? Is it three people? How does that all work together? What are the questions they should be asking? How do they pre qualify? Like, what is all of that daily work?
[00:38:45] How do we build a sales process? That is awesome. Super high value, um, for your, for your clients. Um, one last question for you as we wrap up here, Steven. Uh, [00:39:00] what's your motivation? Um, sorry, I didn't mean to get like all weepy all of a sudden. I, I didn't, I, I wasn't, I wasn't expecting that. And I just, and I, and I got like emotional really quick because I was literally having a similar, uh, question.
[00:39:17] Answer thing with somebody the other day and they're asking me about like, why, why, why does it matter? Like helping agency sell more stuff and I said [00:39:30] really drives me crazy when when I see somebody have to Get by on less than and and I and they're like what and so I tied that back to you know I'm I'm a son of a single mom and I remember when she would walk out to the mailbox when I was Eight nine ten years old looking for the child support check and it wasn't there And then the next day telling me, well, maybe it'll be the, maybe it'll be there tomorrow and maybe [00:40:00] tomorrow and maybe tomorrow.
[00:40:01] And then it just stopped coming and she knitted it together the best that she could and she did a great job. And, and so when I see people struggling, agency owners, struggling with being able to knit all of this together and wanting to grow and having to deal with less than it, it, it, it drives me nuts.
[00:40:24] So that's my motivation. That's beautiful. That's really cool, man. [00:40:30] Ah, well, um, with that, having, having said that, where could people reach out to you, learn more about you and Predictive and, you know, maybe, uh, join the next Q& A. Uh, so Predictive ROI. com is kind of the hub of everything. Uh, you can also find me on LinkedIn.
[00:40:48] Um, and, and then our, our, our resource library, which is packed full of a bunch of free stuff, uh, is it predictive ROI. com slash resources. Uh, and then the, [00:41:00] the book that we've chatted a little bit about the sell with authority book that's there for free. So if you want a paperback copy, you want a Kindle version, whatever, uh, we're, we're happy to, to send you, uh, send that to anybody who, who wants it.
[00:41:12] Um, so just let us know how we can be helpful. That's awesome. I've been on your resource, uh, section of your site and it is full of really, really great content. So, uh, definitely encourage folks to, to check that out. And, um, yeah, Stephen, thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of your wisdom [00:41:30] here.
[00:41:30] been really great. Well, I, I'm grateful for the invitation. Thank you. And thank you for being my guest a few weeks ago on the Cell with Authority podcast, because you absolutely crushed it. It was awesome. That's awesome. I appreciate that, Stephen. All right. We'll talk soon. Thanks very much.
