VGTM_JOSEPH HUGHES_Full Audio Interview_Edited_V1
[00:00:00] Corey Quinn: Welcome to the Vertical Go To Market Podcast, where you'll discover new [00:00:05] opportunities to grow your business from seven figures to eight from the world's most successful [00:00:10] agency and B2B SaaS executives. I'm your host, Corey Quinn. Let's [00:00:15] jump into the show. Today, I'm joined by the visionary behind [00:00:20] Contractor Dynamics, Joseph Hughes.
[00:00:23] Corey Quinn: What's going on,
[00:00:23] Joseph Hughes: Joseph? A lot. [00:00:25] I want to a lot going on. Uh, great to be here. I'm excited. I love [00:00:30] your enthusiasm for this. So I'm excited to dig in
[00:00:32] Corey Quinn: here. Me too, Joseph. I have [00:00:35] so much interest in your background and the work you do. I used to be at an agency [00:00:40] that targeted the trades, including roofers. And so I have a sense of what you do and I can't wait [00:00:45] to dig in.
[00:00:46] Corey Quinn: As I mentioned, you're the, you're the visionary, the founder behind [00:00:50] Contractor Dynamics. Could you just introduce, for the listening audience, could you just introduce a little bit about [00:00:55] you, your background, and then a little bit about your company?
[00:00:59] Joseph Hughes: Yeah, [00:01:00] sure, I'd love to. So, I'll start with present and kind of work backward a little bit, if that's cool.
[00:01:04] Joseph Hughes: [00:01:05] So, Contractor Dynamics, we are a marketing training company. And we work specifically [00:01:10] with roofing companies in North America. So pretty niche in terms of our service. [00:01:15] We are a marketing training company, so we're not providing websites and advertising services to [00:01:20] our clients. We are an education company.
[00:01:22] Joseph Hughes: We train our clients on how to build [00:01:25] and run their own marketing in house. So that's a niche there. And then we [00:01:30] focus 100 percent on roofing companies. It might sound a little bit, maybe a [00:01:35] small market for those of you who are not in construction. It is a gigantic [00:01:40] industry, the roofing industry. So We can talk more about that, but that's what we focus on been doing [00:01:45] this.
[00:01:45] Joseph Hughes: We started back in 2013, so about 10 and a half years. And I grew up in [00:01:50] my family's construction business here in New Jersey and New York City. Uh, started there [00:01:55] when I was 14, working out in the field, working out in the shipyard, blue collar, worked my way [00:02:00] into the office and, uh, learned a lot about small business and all the different [00:02:05] parts of small business.
[00:02:06] Joseph Hughes: And, uh, just kind of got obsessed with that. And, uh, I left [00:02:10] the, I left the family biz. which is called Hughes Marine Firms. It's a hundred and, uh, they started in [00:02:15] 1894. So they're a hundred and What 29 years old or something like that? Something crazy. [00:02:20] Yeah, so I left the family biz. It was awesome I just really had this itch to [00:02:25] Go out on my own and just kind of you know See what I could do out there and make a dent in the world as [00:02:30] we entrepreneurs like to do So yeah, that's uh the construction background.
[00:02:34] Joseph Hughes: It's [00:02:35] my blood. I love marketing. I love business I love helping people above everything else. [00:02:40] So that's how that all came about beautiful
[00:02:42] Corey Quinn: now I believe you have you have children [00:02:45] if small children Yeah, sorry, I focused so much on the business. No, no, there's a reason why I asked that. [00:02:50] I'm going to interrupt you.
[00:02:50] Corey Quinn: So you mentioned that you left the family business. There's a movie that my son and I just watched last night, a [00:02:55] Disney movie called Elemental. Have you had a chance to see that? I have not. Okay. [00:03:00] The storyline is the relationship between a child and their family [00:03:05] and she wants to leave the family business.
[00:03:06] Corey Quinn: So sorry, I just watched that movie last night. It's very [00:03:10] good, by the way. How was that, just total tangent, but how was that, [00:03:15] was there a lot of pressure to stay in the family business or was that fairly? Not [00:03:20] that much friction getting out.
[00:03:21] Joseph Hughes: Yeah. The family dynamic, I'm sure there's a lot of family, uh, you know, [00:03:25] family business people may be listening to this, tuning into this very common.
[00:03:28] Joseph Hughes: And it ended up being [00:03:30] pressure only from me. So it's one of those deals where, yeah, I grew up in the business. It's like, kind [00:03:35] of like the mafia. Like once you get in, you don't leave. And just because it's, it was [00:03:40] good. It was like, you know, a comfortable living. It wasn't baller money, but it was good [00:03:45] money.
[00:03:45] Joseph Hughes: Company car, health benefits, you know, the whole deal, right? So job security, [00:03:50] working for 120 something year old business, job security in every sense of the word. [00:03:55] And yeah, so that was just a thing that I built up internally over a couple of [00:04:00] years. And you know, over the, the, the six months leading up to my conversation with my, [00:04:05] my dad, my dad and my, my two uncles were the owners.
[00:04:07] Joseph Hughes: And I remember it like clear as day. It [00:04:10] was the day after Thanksgiving. 2011, I'm in my parents' kitchen because I'm [00:04:15] like home for Thanksgiving and like I'm like sweating. I'm like probably [00:04:20] stuttering. I probably like was white and everything. I was so just so nervous because you know, [00:04:25] I didn't wanna seem ungrateful for the opportunity, but I had to live my life and so I kind of blurted it [00:04:30] out and at the end of the day, like I didn't have kids at the time, but now that I do, I [00:04:35] realize, you know, my parents just want me to be.
[00:04:37] Joseph Hughes: You know, they want me to have a roof over my head, no pun [00:04:40] intended. They want me to be happy with my own family. And, and that's that. So [00:04:45] I'm grateful to have that opportunity with the family biz. I learned a ton, grateful to have parents that are [00:04:50] understanding that are like, yeah, do you know, we'll support you in whatever you want to do and cheer you on and all that good [00:04:55] stuff.
[00:04:55] Joseph Hughes: And also the other thing, Corey, is that like, I was not the, I'm not the end of the [00:05:00] line for my family. So it's not like, Not like me leaving was, was stopping like a hundred year [00:05:05] old run. I have four cousins that are my generation, the sixth generation in the family [00:05:10] biz right now. So it'll continue on. If I was that last straw, I don't, I don't think I could have had, [00:05:15] could have done that.
[00:05:15] Joseph Hughes: So luckily I didn't need to make that decision. That would have been a tough,
[00:05:18] Corey Quinn: tough. Wow. [00:05:20] What an amazing story. And it sounds like you leverage a lot of, like you said, a lot of the experience. Working in more [00:05:25] of a blue collar situation and seeing how small businesses run and now you're leveraging that [00:05:30] in your own business as an entrepreneur.
[00:05:32] Corey Quinn: Amazing. That's really cool. What could you [00:05:35] share just for context about contractor dynamics as far as maybe the size of the business, number of [00:05:40] employees, revenue, anything you're comfortable sharing?
[00:05:42] Joseph Hughes: Yeah. So we are, let's see, there's 12, [00:05:45] 12 team members. I don't like the word employees. I think we're all part of a team.
[00:05:49] Joseph Hughes: [00:05:50] We follow the EOS structure. So we have a lot of, we're very systematic in the way we [00:05:55] operate. We work with roofing companies throughout North America, all shapes and sizes. [00:06:00] And currently we're around 60, 60 clients. And yeah, [00:06:05] our, our flagship program is a 12 month marketing training program. So we [00:06:10] work with our clients for at least a year.
[00:06:11] Joseph Hughes: Ideally we'd like to get them, you know, into our ecosystem and work [00:06:15] with them for two to three years on a variety of different things. But yeah, that's kind of a, you [00:06:20] know, snapshot of the biz. Sure. I don't generally like to, you know, share revenue numbers and all [00:06:25] that. So that's okay.
[00:06:25] Corey Quinn: That's a hundred percent fine.
[00:06:28] Corey Quinn: What is your role there as the
[00:06:29] Joseph Hughes: visionary? [00:06:30] To cast the vision of the company, we are, you know, we're still small. So it's not like I'm just sitting [00:06:35] here, like, you know, meditating and, you know, thinking about the vision and all that. Like [00:06:40] I'm in the business a lot. So I'm the visionary driving the, the, the direction of the [00:06:45] company.
[00:06:45] Joseph Hughes: And I also sit in the marketing seat. So I'm the head of marketing. So [00:06:50] that's, that's what I do for the majority of my hours in any given week is, is [00:06:55] working on building and running our marketing. And then we have Elizabeth, our integrator, and she [00:07:00] also sits in the finance seat and the sales seat. And then we have a couple other people in leadership [00:07:05] positions.
[00:07:05] Joseph Hughes: But mostly what I'm doing is, you know, culture, core values. We have a team [00:07:10] meeting every Monday that Elizabeth and I take turns leading, coaching our team members to [00:07:15] help them level up, whether it might be like, you know, time management or, you know, things [00:07:20] like that. And then, like I said, a lot of it is really focused on marketing.
[00:07:24] Joseph Hughes: Let's talk
[00:07:24] Corey Quinn: [00:07:25] about the origin of your business. So you started, as you mentioned, in 2013. You've been around for [00:07:30] about 10 and a half years. What was happening in your life about 2013? You [00:07:35] mentioned 2011 is when you, you had that discussion across the breakfast [00:07:40] table, if you will, with your folks. Then in 2013, it sounds like this was when you [00:07:45] started the company.
[00:07:46] Corey Quinn: About, you know, plus or minus, what was happening in your life? What was [00:07:50] the sort of the lead up to starting the business?
[00:07:52] Joseph Hughes: Man, I, I had, you know, I had a business [00:07:55] plan on paper and, uh, we all know how those go. You know, that's, that's worth nothing until [00:08:00] you go out there in the market and get kicked in the teeth a little bit.
[00:08:03] Joseph Hughes: So I had this business plan. [00:08:05] I knew I was, uh, I wanted to do marketing. I just saw, I had a [00:08:10] passion. I still have a passion for it. I saw the gap in the industry in terms of like contracting and [00:08:15] marketing. And, you know, another thing is about marketing with, with the construction industry is like. You [00:08:20] know, small hinges swing big doors.
[00:08:21] Joseph Hughes: So you can make a few little tweaks to a company, [00:08:25] company's marketing. And because construction projects are generally high ticket, like that can make a [00:08:30] massive difference in a company. So I was excited about that. And the way that I [00:08:35] started out, Corey is locally here at the Jersey shore. I started a Facebook group and I started [00:08:40] a local, a networking group of contractors.
[00:08:42] Joseph Hughes: And, you know, I, I started going [00:08:45] to these like chamber of commerce, uh, meetings and BNI and everything like that. I [00:08:50] know those things can be awesome. I did, I did not personally enjoy that. [00:08:55] And I did not find that a valuable use of time because I was so focused on [00:09:00] contractors. And so I said, you know, instead of trying to get a seat at the table, let me build my own table.
[00:09:04] Joseph Hughes: [00:09:05] And I started this networking group, Jersey Shore Contractors. I started hosting, [00:09:10] uh, coffee meetups. So it's like every Friday at Green Planet Coffee Shop in Point Pleasant, New Jersey, we're [00:09:15] gonna meet at 7am, coffee and, you know, donuts, bagels are on me and we'll just kind of meet up [00:09:20] and network. And you know, we have people come and you'd have like, you know, the remodeling contractor meeting [00:09:25] up with the architect and they were chatting about a project, you know, the pool.
[00:09:28] Joseph Hughes: Builder, landscape guy, [00:09:30] like everyone was kind of forming these relationships. And I was at the center of it. This is kind of before I even [00:09:35] knew what the heck I was selling. And the first couple of guys came up to me at, at this [00:09:40] event. One guy's name was Neil and another guy, Nick. And they both are like, Hey, like, [00:09:45] so what do you do?
[00:09:45] Joseph Hughes: How can you help us? And I was like, well, I don't know, like, what do you need? And it [00:09:50] was really like that, that raw. And so, you know, it was a website, it was [00:09:55] SEO, it was some other marketing that. We ended up doing for those guys and that was the [00:10:00] genesis of it. So that was, that was the start of it. I, I had a, [00:10:05] I'm not a, like a web developer or anything like that.
[00:10:07] Joseph Hughes: I built websites over the, you know, over the [00:10:10] years, but I hired a full time web developer in the Philippines. His [00:10:15] name is J U and like, it was me and J U, man. I would, I would like, you know, talk with the clients [00:10:20] during the day. I'd be sitting at my kitchen table with my laptop at night because, you know, Philippines are like 12 [00:10:25] hours ahead of me and just, you know, just knocking it out, slamming coffee and just making it happen.[00:10:30]
[00:10:30] Joseph Hughes: And I would not recommend this, but within like a four month period, we... I started [00:10:35] this business, we had our first child and we moved homes, like three big events within [00:10:40] a four month period. I would not recommend that, but looking back on it, you know, what [00:10:45] doesn't kill you makes it stronger. So yeah, I feel like that was, uh, you know, helped me kind of just, you know, [00:10:50] develop some grit.
[00:10:51] Joseph Hughes: So that was the genesis
[00:10:52] Corey Quinn: of it. That's amazing. So you weren't getting what you [00:10:55] wanted out of the BNI because you're focused on contractors. How did you know that that contractors was [00:11:00] the market you wanted
[00:11:00] Joseph Hughes: to focus on? Just from growing up in the industry, you [00:11:05] know, it's in my blood literally is my first job when I was 14 working in a shipyard in Brooklyn, New York.[00:11:10]
[00:11:10] Joseph Hughes: And, um, yeah, just coming from a humble, you know, [00:11:15] family, we, you know, as a family growing up, like, you know, we did, my parents did [00:11:20] well and went to private high school and college and all that stuff, but like still very humble. And I love that [00:11:25] aspect of, of construction, like the humility, the fact that like you can put in a hard day's work [00:11:30] and build something and create something.
[00:11:32] Joseph Hughes: So yeah, I just always knew that, like, I wanted to be [00:11:35] a part of that, uh, something like tangible, you know, so I actually have a finance degree [00:11:40] from college. I, I sold municipal bonds right out of college for the, for a few [00:11:45] years. And before I went into the family biz and I hated it cause it was just like, you [00:11:50] know, just numbers and papers and it wasn't like anything tangible really at the end of the day it [00:11:55] is, but it wasn't like immediately tangible to me.
[00:11:57] Joseph Hughes: So I liked that tangible aspect of [00:12:00] construction. That's awesome. So it was
[00:12:01] Corey Quinn: clear that you wanted to lean into that, [00:12:05] uh, that vertical specialization. You have all that history and that connection, started your [00:12:10] own group on Facebook. I love that fact that you did that super smart. And then you just were [00:12:15] helpful.
[00:12:15] Corey Quinn: He asked like, you know, what do you need? People needed websites and then you made it, made it happen. [00:12:20] So at what point did you become a training company or you were started off sounding like, you know, [00:12:25] you were doing more marketing services and then, and then it evolved into training and then, and then where do roofers come [00:12:30] into
[00:12:30] Joseph Hughes: play?
[00:12:31] Joseph Hughes: Yeah, sure. So it was very organic. It was, uh, [00:12:35] we are a marketing agency. We built up a full agency for seven years, 2013 through [00:12:40] 19. And, you know, building websites, running ads, blogging, doing all those things. And then it was [00:12:45] about 2018. I had a partner at the time. His name's Tim. I since bought him out. So [00:12:50] I'm back to being a hundred percent owner last couple of years.
[00:12:52] Joseph Hughes: But Tim and I were like, man, you know, we have [00:12:55] these, we have a bunch of clients that are paying us every month and they are [00:13:00] doing really well. They're getting great results. And then we have these other clients that are paying us every month [00:13:05] and like, they're not really doing that well. And we're like, what's like the common, you're always looking for patterns, [00:13:10] right?
[00:13:10] Joseph Hughes: Like what's working, what's not working. And so the clients that were doing well. We're the contracting [00:13:15] companies like all over the country. So we're working virtually with everyone, of course, that are [00:13:20] involved in their marketing. Like they care about it, they're interested in it. They're, you know, showing up to [00:13:25] their, their monthly meetings with us.
[00:13:27] Joseph Hughes: They're, you know, emailing us back and we send [00:13:30] a reporting every Friday. If we ask for videos or photos, like they're sending us [00:13:35] content. We had a couple of guys even fly out to our office in New Jersey to sit down to kind of Build [00:13:40] out their annual marketing plan. So those guys were doing great. And then there's other [00:13:45] contractors that like didn't understand marketing and they just wanted to pay us to make their phone ring.[00:13:50]
[00:13:50] Joseph Hughes: And back in like 2015, 16, 17, like that was pretty easy. [00:13:55] Like we could run Facebook ads for roofing company in Dallas and kill it. Like it was pretty easy. [00:14:00] Then you started getting used to more and more companies on social media, more contracting companies and social [00:14:05] media. More noise out there and more competition for the ad dollars.
[00:14:09] Joseph Hughes: And we [00:14:10] saw the necessity for, for contracting companies to like be creating their own [00:14:15] content and sharing videos and differentiating. And that's still a big question. Like, how do I differentiate the [00:14:20] crowded market? Well, like video content. So we started developing some training to help our [00:14:25] clients basically be better clients.
[00:14:26] Joseph Hughes: Like, Hey Brett, one of our clients at the time, we want you to do this [00:14:30] video. Like Brett had no clue what the heck we were talking about. So here's a little bit of training on how to [00:14:35] do that. We put it inside, I believe, Kajabi at the time. And like, here's some training videos on [00:14:40] how to do what we're telling you to do.
[00:14:41] Joseph Hughes: And then in 2019, we decided to try [00:14:45] out like a pilot training program. So it was May, 2019. And I [00:14:50] said to, uh, you know, we, we mapped out like a, what was it, a six week, it was a six week [00:14:55] program looking back on it way too short, but anyway, it was a six week program or it was [00:15:00] a 10 week, it was somewhere, it was six weeks.
[00:15:03] Joseph Hughes: And I went out to six [00:15:05] roofing company. Owners that I knew pretty well. I was like, Hey, we're going to try [00:15:10] this thing. If you want to learn how to do some of this stuff yourself, we're going to try this thing. We're going to start in [00:15:15] May. We're going to meet every Wednesday at three 30 or I meet on zoom and we're going to, [00:15:20] you know, kind of build this out as we go along.
[00:15:22] Joseph Hughes: You're going to be a guinea pig. You're going to pay a discounted rate. [00:15:25] But like, we're going to build this thing as we go based on your feedback. So we did that in [00:15:30] May, June, 2019, got some good feedback. And then we developed it into a full [00:15:35] blown training program and launched it on January 1st, 2020. So we flipped the [00:15:40] switch Jan 1st, 2020 and I've never looked back.
[00:15:43] Joseph Hughes: So yeah, man, three and a half [00:15:45] years of training and, uh, still feel like we're, we just kind of like, we reinvented the [00:15:50] business. You know, we, we, we shed our clients. We, you know, shed team [00:15:55] members. We almost like in a sense started as a new startup. [00:16:00] But with a lot of experience, so that was pretty cool. So
[00:16:04] Corey Quinn: many questions I have.[00:16:05]
[00:16:05] Corey Quinn: This is, this is fascinating because I think you've been able to successfully transition from [00:16:10] an agency to a training company, obviously. And that, that's a, that's a very difficult thing to do. I also find [00:16:15] it interesting. You did it on January, in January, 2020, right before the pandemic. I'm sure [00:16:20] that was potentially a really good move from a timing perspective.
[00:16:23] Joseph Hughes: It was interesting. Yeah. [00:16:25] Obviously no one knew that was coming, you know, March, but that was fortuitous for our [00:16:30] business. It was, you know, you had these, you had these contractors that were like knocking doors, [00:16:35] literally, as you know, like a lot of roofing companies will, will knock doors and they weren't able to do [00:16:40] that.
[00:16:40] Joseph Hughes: So it's like, well, I need to be able to. Get in touch with people digitally. So that was, [00:16:45] that was a pretty good, you know, little boost for the business for sure. So, and then besides that, [00:16:50] just the trend of like, Hey, you know, that's how consumers make decisions [00:16:55] these days. Like we're looking online and like social media, just, you know, all of that has just been a, you know, [00:17:00] giant movement.
[00:17:01] Corey Quinn: What for the six week program itself, what was the curriculum? [00:17:05] Like what was the focus of that
[00:17:06] Joseph Hughes: original program? Man, that would be, uh, I'd have to dig that up. [00:17:10] I think we still have like remnants of it now. So [00:17:15] like our five pillars right now, which I think that they've evolved. But the five pillars we [00:17:20] have right now are foundation.
[00:17:21] Joseph Hughes: So understanding, like getting clarity on your business, your goals, your ideal clients, your [00:17:25] ideal projects. Second pillar is content. So creating content to actually [00:17:30] like get the attention of your ideal perspective clients and team members. Third is [00:17:35] distribution. So getting your content out in front of people.
[00:17:37] Joseph Hughes: So social media ads at the, at that time, now we [00:17:40] focus on a lot more, but at that time, social media ads, Facebook ads. Number four was [00:17:45] optimization, like learning how to like look at the data to see what's working, what's not. So, so [00:17:50] like a, like a roofing company owner can like, you know, go in ads manager and make some adjustments [00:17:55] and things like that.
[00:17:56] Joseph Hughes: And then number five sales. So having a lead handling [00:18:00] system, a follow up system, long term nurture system. So those were the five. [00:18:05] Pillars that we still use today. We've elaborated on all of those, but, uh, I think that was it.
[00:18:09] Corey Quinn: [00:18:10] Yeah. That's, uh, that curriculum sounds awesome because it's not just like [00:18:15] tactical, like, you know, here's a Facebook ad.
[00:18:17] Corey Quinn: You're more talking about more strategy. Like, you [00:18:20] know, who is our, who's our ideal customer and, and, you know, how do we want to position ourself and talking about [00:18:25] content, all those really important things that are difficult potentially to train on, but [00:18:30] are very, to your point, like a big lever.
[00:18:32] Joseph Hughes: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:33] Joseph Hughes: Most companies, like, you know, whether [00:18:35] you like, whether they've tried, say, say Facebook ads on their own or they've [00:18:40] hired like a, a, a guy or an agency, usually they start at pillar, like step number three, [00:18:45] which is distribution. Like you said, like, let's, let's boost this post, or let's like, you know, [00:18:50] let's run this ad and see what happens.
[00:18:51] Joseph Hughes: And that spray and pray marketing. Yeah. And you know, that doesn't work. [00:18:55] So it's like, Hey, let's back up. Let's like look at the big pic picture here. Let's get clarity. Let's start with the end in [00:19:00] mind. And then like go from there. So that's still today. Like that's the first exercise we [00:19:05] go through with a new client is like our marketing strategy worksheet.
[00:19:08] Joseph Hughes: It's like that foundational [00:19:10] piece. And a lot of companies even today are like, man, like this is such a great exercise. Like [00:19:15] we've never done this before. Like this is awesome. Yeah.
[00:19:17] Corey Quinn: Yeah. It's a ton of value there. [00:19:20] And how did you come to roofers specifically? I know you mentioned that of your agency clients, [00:19:25] you had some that were much more engaged and responsive and kind of hands on.[00:19:30]
[00:19:30] Corey Quinn: And others, not so much. Was that where you kind of refined it to roofers or where did [00:19:35] roofing come in specifically?
[00:19:37] Joseph Hughes: Yes, it was very like serendipitous and [00:19:40] it goes back to the one of the guys at that first meetup, Nick. Nick Forsell, owned [00:19:45] a contracting company here by me at the Jersey Shore. and became, you know, [00:19:50] client number one or two back in the day after those meetups I had.
[00:19:53] Joseph Hughes: Nick moved to [00:19:55] Dallas, Texas with his family in 2017 and focused on [00:20:00] roofing because roofing's big, big in Texas. And he calls me, he's like, [00:20:05] dude, you got to like come down here. There's like this, this, like, it was a lunch and learn, like [00:20:10] literally a lunch and learn for roofing contractors in Dallas, August, 2017.[00:20:15]
[00:20:15] Joseph Hughes: He's like, come down, I'll introduce you to the guys running it. I'll introduce you to, uh, you know, my [00:20:20] buddies in the roofing industry. So literally got on a plane that morning. I [00:20:25] mean, he gave me a heads up, but like, I flew down and back from Jersey to Dallas in the same day, flew [00:20:30] down, went to the lunch and learn, flew back that night.
[00:20:32] Joseph Hughes: I was in my bed that night, but I met a lot [00:20:35] of people there. Got exposed to the roofing industry and got talking with Nick and [00:20:40] like, man, this is like a gigantic industry. I had no idea. And it's very like [00:20:45] entrepreneurial. It's very scalable. So whereas like a remodeling company, you know, your [00:20:50] typical like mom and pop remodeling company, in my experience anyway, you know, they don't [00:20:55] like to take on too much work because they like to be involved in, you know, checking on their jobs and, you know, making [00:21:00] selections with a homeowner.
[00:21:01] Joseph Hughes: And generally that, that's a very like more of a complex business that is not, [00:21:05] As scalable, uh, granted, there are some big remodeling companies for sure, but like with [00:21:10] roofing, it's more like, Hey, you're, you know, we're replacing roof in a day. You know, we have some clients that do [00:21:15] 30, 40, 50 roofs a week.
[00:21:16] Joseph Hughes: Very scalable. Like, and we found like that. A lot of the owners [00:21:20] were around my age, you know, building businesses, growing families. [00:21:25] Trying to like, do it all very entrepreneurial. And I really latched onto that. And, [00:21:30] you know, back to the thing I said, like about BNI and the chambers of commerce and things like that, [00:21:35] those meet, those like events were full of like, you know, old people that I didn't really want to like hang out [00:21:40] with at the time.
[00:21:41] Joseph Hughes: And like, you know, roofing was like, Oh, like you guys are like my age where you're like pretty much the [00:21:45] same or we're building service businesses, mine's marketing, yourself roofing. But. Other than that, it's pretty [00:21:50] much the same. And so, yeah, that was that. So we're like, you know what, let's just go all in with [00:21:55] roofing.
[00:21:55] Joseph Hughes: And, uh, for the next couple of years, this is back in 2018 and we've been [00:22:00] hanging out here ever since. And we will through 2025. That's our plan. We might expand after [00:22:05] that. We might not, I don't know, but it's, it's that big. Yeah. So why, why,
[00:22:09] Corey Quinn: why [00:22:10] is that important for a business owner to such as yourself to instead of go from.
[00:22:14] Corey Quinn: Let's [00:22:15] say construction or even home services, which is arguably a [00:22:20] subset of construction. You went to the next level, which is a sub subset [00:22:25] of construction. Like why, why was that important for you Strategically for
[00:22:29] Joseph Hughes: marketing [00:22:30] our business, two reasons. Marketing our business, it's, it's easier to like focus [00:22:35] on one niche, like on one trade, right?
[00:22:38] Joseph Hughes: For example, going to conferences, [00:22:40] we're going to three conferences coming up over the next few months. We're hosting our own, two of our own events over [00:22:45] the next few months. That's all roofing specific. Like, there's no way as a small company we could be going to [00:22:50] like, the roofing conferences and then the HVAC and then the remodeling and the landscaping.
[00:22:54] Joseph Hughes: [00:22:55] Like there's no way we could have done that. So this way we're able to like laser focus on like going [00:23:00] to all the conferences and the roofing and we've been fortunate enough to get on stage at some of them and [00:23:05] even win awards at a couple of them. And so that's been, you know, just a way to like really strengthen the brand [00:23:10] and like become like, you know, it's still, it's still a big pond, but like, you know, a [00:23:15] noticeable fish in a big pond.
[00:23:16] Joseph Hughes: I won't say a big fish in a small pond, but a notice, you know, become more [00:23:20] noticeable. So that's number one reason for us selfishly. And then. The other reason is for our [00:23:25] clients. So when our clients come into our training program, like we have a whole online portal, [00:23:30] we have a couple dozen call, like group calls and one on one calls every week, [00:23:35] everything is roofing specific.
[00:23:37] Joseph Hughes: So they're able to come in and like, we're speaking their [00:23:40] language. We have like kind of ready to go, you know, add templates and video scripts and, [00:23:45] you know, marketing strategies ready for them to kind of like, you know, use and kind of take, you know, [00:23:50] make their own spin on, but it's like, they appreciate that because we speak their language.
[00:23:53] Joseph Hughes: So, and then [00:23:55] when we get on our group calls. It's, you know, it's roofing company market managers, or [00:24:00] today we had a two hour call with our, with six roofing company owners. And they're all [00:24:05] talking about the same issues and they're all talking about, you know, the, the same things, the same [00:24:10] language. And that's just so valuable, you know, cause they're in a group of their people.
[00:24:14] Joseph Hughes: So [00:24:15] just that's, for those two reasons, it's been, it's been awesome. Hey, it's
[00:24:18] Corey Quinn: Corey. [00:24:20] Almost every day, I talk with agency owners who are frustrated with getting their outbound [00:24:25] program off the ground. The truth is, too many agencies are too [00:24:30] dependent on inbounds and referrals to grow their business. We all know that it's [00:24:35] getting harder and harder to generate inbounds and that it's just not a sustainable way to [00:24:40] grow your business.
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[00:25:11] Corey Quinn: com. That's [00:25:15] getoutboundroi. com. Now, back to the show. My experience, I actually, [00:25:20] we did target roofers for a period of time at my last company, Scorpion. And, uh, [00:25:25] we, what I found, just in home services in general and across service businesses, is that [00:25:30] The majority of the businesses that we attracted at that time when I was there were [00:25:35] companies that were looking for more of a done for you type of approach, meaning that [00:25:40] they were not that interested in getting involved in marketing.
[00:25:43] Corey Quinn: They kind of just saw it as a thing [00:25:45] that is sort of a necessary evil in some respects. You know, that's something they had to deal with, but they didn't really [00:25:50] care to get involved in and kind of own. They were looking for a partner. But clearly, the [00:25:55] market that you target and you work with within roofers are those business owners that actually are seeking to be [00:26:00] trained and build some in house expertise.
[00:26:02] Corey Quinn: What does that dynamic look like for you and like, what, is there a [00:26:05] correlation between the size of the roofing business or like how, at what point does a roofer or a [00:26:10] home service business go from, Hey, I want to outsource this to, Hey, I want to [00:26:15] find a great partner to train us so that we can be elite.
[00:26:17] Joseph Hughes: Yeah, great questions. It's been a [00:26:20] journey, Corey. I think a few years ago, like for the past few years at points, [00:26:25] we, we, we kind of like thought and sat around like as a team [00:26:30] and thought that like, in some ways we were early to the market because, you know, roofing is a [00:26:35] very, it's, I don't know, they say it's, you, you might know, cause you have experience working with more types of trades than I do, but, [00:26:40] You know, a few years behind like HVAC, for example, or home services.
[00:26:43] Joseph Hughes: Right. So [00:26:45] in terms of like sophistication, innovation, software, CRMs, like you [00:26:50] name it. So I mean, 2023, like we've worked with a couple of clients this year [00:26:55] who like we helped them get their, get into their first CRM, like mind blowing [00:27:00] anyway. So we thought we were kind of early to where, you know, we're offering marketing training.[00:27:05]
[00:27:05] Joseph Hughes: And our market doesn't even know that that is a thing or what that is. So that's why [00:27:10] like we focus so much on education, our podcasts, our YouTube, like a ton of social media [00:27:15] content. I think most, most people will probably think we're a much bigger company than we are [00:27:20] because we put out so much content, but now like we've seen the shifts [00:27:25] like this year and we just talked about in our leadership meeting on Monday, we've seen a shift [00:27:30] and we're attracting more of those, those companies that are like, No, I don't want it done [00:27:35] for me.
[00:27:35] Joseph Hughes: I want to build my brand and I want to learn how to do it in house. And some of that is, is [00:27:40] just strictly like mindset, you know, maybe younger roofing company [00:27:45] owners, they understand like brand, they understand marketing, they understand social media, the [00:27:50] value of it. They might not understand like the, the nuances of it, which is why, you know, they're [00:27:55] paying us to train them, but they understand the importance of it.
[00:27:57] Joseph Hughes: So that's, that's one thing in that [00:28:00] regard. No, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. What the company size is, you know, we have [00:28:05] clients that are, that are, you know, they hit their first million dollar year this year, or they're going [00:28:10] for it. We have clients that are striving for a hundred million this year. So it really is just a mindset [00:28:15] thing.
[00:28:15] Joseph Hughes: And a lot of it comes down to the pain point, the pain point of, [00:28:20] Hey, I've been in business a few years. I've tried. You know, one, [00:28:25] two, three, five, seven marketing agencies. I've wasted so much money. I haven't gotten [00:28:30] results. I feel stupid because I just keep getting taken advantage of. And I, the [00:28:35] pain is so bad that I want to learn it myself.
[00:28:38] Joseph Hughes: Yeah. That has been, [00:28:40] we've seen, we felt that shift this year. So like, we know that man, roofing [00:28:45] industry, like most companies still don't care about marketing and those that do, you [00:28:50] know, only. I don't know, a handful, 3 percent of the companies that care about marketing want [00:28:55] marketing training. So we, we work really hard to find our people, but when we do, [00:29:00] man, it's awesome.
[00:29:01] Joseph Hughes: It's just like, it's just like, like, let's get married today. You know,
[00:29:04] Corey Quinn: it's, [00:29:05] it's awesome. Yeah. I think it's super interesting. That all makes perfect sense. And I think, [00:29:10] gosh, there's probably Well, I'll back up. I think there's a number of [00:29:15] agencies that are truly really good in the, in the, in any space, but they struggle to stand out [00:29:20] because there is so much noise in the agency market where a lot of these clients are trying to attract, [00:29:25] have, are somewhat jaded because they've had a poor experience like over and over and over again.
[00:29:29] Corey Quinn: What [00:29:30] I think you're, what I'm hearing you do is you're doing something different. You're not better than the other [00:29:35] agency, you're doing a different approach. It's almost like a category play, a little bit, right? [00:29:40] Where it's, it's an opportunity to tell them, hey, You may not be thinking, you may not realize it, [00:29:45] but there's a different way to, you know, solve this problem that you're trying to, you're struggling with.
[00:29:49] Corey Quinn: It's not [00:29:50] going and hiring another agency. There's, there's a different way. And by the way, it's probably a better way [00:29:55] potentially, right? Depends on how you frame it, but that's, that's super interesting opportunity for you guys.
[00:29:59] Joseph Hughes: Yeah, that's [00:30:00] intentional. It's the Russell Brunson, like new vehicle. So like, uh, you know, Hey, you've been in this vehicle [00:30:05] trying to achieve this result.
[00:30:05] Joseph Hughes: Here's a new vehicle to achieve the same thing. Or you can use like red ocean, blue [00:30:10] ocean, whatever. But yeah. Shoot. I was going to say something else on that, but I forget. [00:30:15]
[00:30:15] Corey Quinn: Yeah. Which is, which is why it's brilliant. That you are doing a lot of content because [00:30:20] part of that is helping to solve their problems with the content through the podcast and YouTube and these other [00:30:25] things.
[00:30:25] Corey Quinn: Did you get
[00:30:25] Joseph Hughes: your thought? I did get my thought. So I do want to, [00:30:30] I do want to, I mean, I don't know how important this might be to the episode, but most of our [00:30:35] clients that we train, they still work with agencies. Like they still worked outside agencies. The [00:30:40] difference is that the clients that were like our clients understand.
[00:30:44] Joseph Hughes: How [00:30:45] to collaboratively work with those agencies, how to hold them accountable and that sort of thing. So they have [00:30:50] more successful relationships. So like, for example, like we'll train our clients on how to do all those five [00:30:55] pillars or on their social media ads. But there are things like, you know, websites, SEO, Google [00:31:00] ads, pretty complex, pretty technical things that most of our clients don't do in house that we recommend that [00:31:05] they find an agency for.
[00:31:06] Joseph Hughes: Sure, we have recommendations that we can make, but they are able [00:31:10] to say, Hey, agency, where's my report? Where's my results? No, I'm [00:31:15] not taking, we're tweaking things in the backend for an answer or, hey, we got to wait till the [00:31:20] algorithm kicks in for an answer. Like they're, they're holding them accountable and getting better results [00:31:25] or, you know, getting rid of them and, you know, running it themselves.
[00:31:28] Joseph Hughes: So I don't, I want to [00:31:30] clarify that we're, we're not like anti agency at all. A lot of our clients [00:31:35] do both.
[00:31:36] Corey Quinn: That's awesome, and I think a byproduct of that is you're probably [00:31:40] making them better agency clients because the agency would probably [00:31:45] prefer, at least in my experience, prefer to work with a more sophisticated client who could [00:31:50] be more clear about exactly what they want and have input into the work they're doing [00:31:55] versus having it all be on the agency that come up with it.
[00:31:58] Corey Quinn: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's [00:32:00] wow. That's, that's super interesting.
[00:32:02] Joseph Hughes: Uh, some agencies [00:32:05] probably don't like us because we, uh, educate our clients on how to, you [00:32:10] know, how to understand what they're getting or not getting. So yeah,
[00:32:13] Corey Quinn: that's good though. I think that's [00:32:15] good. So along the path here, you've been, you've been at it for 10 plus years, [00:32:20] first seven years were at agency.
[00:32:21] Corey Quinn: Then you transitioned to this, this training [00:32:25] program and this. This service where you're helping to train these roofers. [00:32:30] What are some of the common challenges, or the typical challenges, or some of the challenges [00:32:35] you've faced? Along the way, and I'll actually ask about one specifically, at [00:32:40] what point did this concept of delegating and elevating become a priority for you?[00:32:45]
[00:32:45] Joseph Hughes: Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, challenges every day. I wrote a post earlier this week. [00:32:50] It might've been over the weekend, but every day I feel like I get more [00:32:55] successful. I face more challenges and there's a third thing, but it's, you know, it [00:33:00] comes with the territory of growth. So yeah, delegating and elevating is an [00:33:05] EOS term.
[00:33:05] Joseph Hughes: Are you familiar with EOS? Yes, generally. All right. So we follow EOS, [00:33:10] Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOSworldwide. com. Basically an operating system for running your [00:33:15] business where you have the right people in the right seats, roles and responsibilities, annual planning, [00:33:20] quarterly meetings, weekly meetings.
[00:33:22] Joseph Hughes: For someone that's like a high S personality, like [00:33:25] structure, stability, consistency, it plays really well into like my personality and our [00:33:30] team loves it as well. So yeah, one of the tools, the EOS tools is called delegate and elevate. [00:33:35] So as an owner, like for so many years, it was the Joe show. Like, [00:33:40] yeah, we had, we the bottleneck for everything.[00:33:45]
[00:33:45] Joseph Hughes: I'm telling people what to do, not like a dictatorial way, but like telling people what to do and they're [00:33:50] doing it. Come back to me. All right. What's next? What do I do? And it's like, that's a typical like owner employee kind of [00:33:55] relationship.
[00:33:56] Corey Quinn: I've done that too. So I know exactly what that's
[00:33:58] Joseph Hughes: like. Yeah. And then like, you just, [00:34:00] you get to the point, you hit the, you know, Dan Martell calls it the pain wall.
[00:34:03] Joseph Hughes: Like you get to this wall where like, [00:34:05] it's so painful, I gotta do something to change because I feel burnt out or I can't go any further. I reached [00:34:10] the ceiling. And so EOS enables you to delegate, not like. I'm not delegating a [00:34:15] task like, Hey, Casey, do this thing. It's delegating the outcome or the responsibility.
[00:34:19] Joseph Hughes: [00:34:20] So like Elizabeth is in charge of like the, you know, she, our finances, she's in charge [00:34:25] of our sales. So like the entire departments are delegated. So I can elevate into that visionary [00:34:30] seat and kind of zoom out and focus on like, Hey, you know, where are we going over the next three [00:34:35] years? In which ways do we see like the market shifting?
[00:34:38] Joseph Hughes: In which ways do our clients [00:34:40] need more support from us or maybe need help in different areas. So things like that, but [00:34:45] unless you're able to like delegate and truly delegate and not micromanage, you're [00:34:50] not going to be able to elevate to like, you know, people call it working on the business, not working in the business.
[00:34:54] Joseph Hughes: [00:34:55] I still do a lot of both, but that's the only way in my experience that you're able to, to grow. [00:35:00] So that's been a really good tool for us. It doesn't come naturally to me because I'm a. A blue [00:35:05] collar grew up like, Hey, if something needs to get done, I'm going to do it. Right. I'm just going to figure out, I'll [00:35:10] get it done.
[00:35:10] Joseph Hughes: If I have to, I'll make some coffee and I'll, I'll just plow through it. So it does come [00:35:15] naturally to me. So Elizabeth is our COO, my right hand. I've said to her multiple [00:35:20] times, like, Hey, call me out. If you feel that I'm not delegating something because [00:35:25] of old habit or whatever. So we have this open, like, you know, dialogue like [00:35:30] that.
[00:35:30] Joseph Hughes: So that's a great,
[00:35:31] Corey Quinn: that's a great asset to have someone who can call you out on your blind spots. We all [00:35:35] have them, right? Yes. Yeah. You know, what, at what point did the, you mentioned [00:35:40] Dan Martell's, uh, you said it was a pain wall, pain, [00:35:45] pain, something like that. Yeah. I, at what point did you, was the pain wall just too [00:35:50] intense that like, as far as along the journey in the 10 ish years, when did you bring [00:35:55] in EOS?
[00:35:55] Corey Quinn: When did you start to address some of these
[00:35:57] Joseph Hughes: things? EOS was about a year and a half ago, so [00:36:00] like May 2022. And yeah, it was like [00:36:05] working, you know, working my butt off and feeling like, you know, we weren't, we weren't [00:36:10] growing kind of like, you know, if you ever had the feeling like you're on a hamster wheel and like, you [00:36:15] know, there are things that you want to do and ways that you might want to grow, but you're just so in the weeds that it's [00:36:20] hard to like pick your head up and, and, you know, look ahead.
[00:36:23] Joseph Hughes: And it was just being at the point, like [00:36:25] our kids are. 11 and 8. Like, I don't want to work. I [00:36:30] like to work. I love it. I don't want to work more hours. I want to work less hours. So it's [00:36:35] like, how can we achieve more and grow more and hire more people with Joe [00:36:40] working, you know, fewer hours and being present for my family and, [00:36:45] you know, being able to go on vacations or whatever it might be.
[00:36:48] Joseph Hughes: So that was a big part of it, you [00:36:50] know? Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was a huge part of it realizing like I'm capping myself at the [00:36:55] number of hours I I'm going to work per week. So like we need to find leverage somewhere. [00:37:00] Yeah.
[00:37:00] Corey Quinn: That's awesome. What impact has joining mastermind groups and [00:37:05] having business coaches, what, what, how has that impacted your growth as a founder and a [00:37:10] leader in your company?
[00:37:11] Joseph Hughes: It's been everything, man. Yeah. For the first couple of years, three years, [00:37:15] I thought somehow my business model was unique, like marketing for contractors. Like I [00:37:20] thought it was kind of you. Now this is before I'm probably sounding old, but before social [00:37:25] media was like really like a big thing. So like, we weren't as connected to people [00:37:30] like you and I would not necessarily be.
[00:37:31] Joseph Hughes: Able to connect like this 10 years ago. Right. [00:37:35] So like, I didn't, I didn't know that there, it wasn't like, uh, I thought it was a very unique business, [00:37:40] so I thought I had to figure out everything on my own. So that's part ignorance and part just, again, my blue collar work [00:37:45] ethic where it's like, no, I want to figure it out.
[00:37:46] Joseph Hughes: Right. And then it was 2015. I joined my [00:37:50] first, like. Online forum mastermind. And through that, I [00:37:55] found a business coach. His name is Tim Conley. So I was in his group coaching program for [00:38:00] a couple of years. And that was like, man, Tim, Tim's 10 years older than me. He had run [00:38:05] a marketing agency, maybe two had sold one of them.
[00:38:08] Joseph Hughes: So he'd been there and done that. [00:38:10] And I was like, holy cow, like, like Tim knows, like what's going on in my head. He [00:38:15] knows the challenges. He's been there and done that. Like he can help guide me. So that was an eye opener. [00:38:20] And then that was 2015. So ever since then, like fast forward, you know, eight years, I [00:38:25] still have a business coach, not him, but another one.
[00:38:27] Joseph Hughes: And it's just, you know, I [00:38:30] have a, I have a business coach that I pay. I'm a member of a couple of mastermind groups. [00:38:35] I, uh, you know, I call my inner circle. So like peer mentors who [00:38:40] are friends who are business owners as well in different industries [00:38:45] that, you know, when I need to make a big decision or something like that, you know, maybe I'll consult them.
[00:38:49] Joseph Hughes: And, you know, [00:38:50] my wife is my kind of therapist. She's not involved in my business, but just kind of as a therapist. [00:38:55] But yeah, that's, I will never not have a business coach. At what
[00:38:59] Corey Quinn: point would [00:39:00] you recommend let's talk, let's say we're. We have someone who's listening into our [00:39:05] conversation who's maybe a a year or two into their agency journey At what point do [00:39:10] you think it's important for them to to reach out to one of these maybe these?
[00:39:14] Corey Quinn: [00:39:15] Agency groups or a consult business consultant or masterminds like at what point does that make sense for them?
[00:39:19] Joseph Hughes: [00:39:20] I would do as early as possible Like I would you know I would do that instead of like [00:39:25] paying myself and it doesn't have to be like I I have a one on one business coach. It's not cheap. [00:39:30] So you don't have to start there.
[00:39:31] Joseph Hughes: But like, you know, the cool part about like our world, like there's a lot of [00:39:35] cool parts about our world today, but like we have access to so many different things. So [00:39:40] yeah, maybe you're not paying, you know, 30 grand a year for, for a one on one business coach, but maybe [00:39:45] it's, you know, 147 a month to join this program.
[00:39:49] Joseph Hughes: Like the one, my [00:39:50] buddy Ryan runs down the street. that you're in a group with a hundred other like minded [00:39:55] entrepreneurs. And, you know, maybe it's specific to running your agency, or [00:40:00] maybe it's not, maybe it's just other business owners that like have the same issues that are laying in [00:40:05] bed at night thinking about the same things.
[00:40:06] Joseph Hughes: Cause we all go through the same things. So just that alone, [00:40:10] in my experience, like just that alone, like talking to people that are going through the same things [00:40:15] is very therapeutic. I think the loneliest part [00:40:20] of business is when you're going through some challenges and you think that like you're the only one that's going through [00:40:25] these challenges.
[00:40:25] Joseph Hughes: It's like, why me? Why am I like, what am I, what's wrong with me? And that sort of [00:40:30] thing. That's the worst. But then you realize like, you know, other people go through those things and you can [00:40:35] help one another out. So I'd recommend. You know, as quickly as possible, even that, like there's free [00:40:40] Facebook groups, like, you know, there's a lot of garbage out there, so you have to do some, you know, some vetting, but like there's free [00:40:45] groups that you can join and, you know, you provide value, you get value return.
[00:40:48] Joseph Hughes: It's awesome.
[00:40:49] Corey Quinn: That's [00:40:50] great. I've, I've been a member of various masterminds, either either dad groups or business [00:40:55] groups, or, you know, uh, along the way, and I couldn't agree more when it comes to the [00:41:00] financials, when did you hire a CFO? But a fractional CFO and like, and [00:41:05] why, what was happening in the business that caused you to realize, Hey, I need to do this.
[00:41:08] Joseph Hughes: That was actually just, uh, [00:41:10] man, probably six months ago. So it was one of those, I just, I [00:41:15] didn't know that, that I didn't really know that existed. So that was like brought to [00:41:20] my attention that there is a, uh, you know, a fractional CFO service that is not a full [00:41:25] time employee that you can meet with a couple of times a month.
[00:41:28] Joseph Hughes: They do our books. They do [00:41:30] our, we met with them today, actually meet with them every two weeks. We go over our financial [00:41:35] statements. And then we also like kind of project forward, like, you know, kind of budgeting and, you know, [00:41:40] tax strategy and things like that. I just didn't know that that was a thing, even after 10 years in [00:41:45] business.
[00:41:45] Joseph Hughes: And now that's been, it's been awesome because now [00:41:50] like. It used to be just me in charge of like all the financials of the business, which is very typical [00:41:55] for business owner. And as a visionary, like I don't like the detailed stuff. Yeah. I [00:42:00] like money of course, but like the, all the detailed stuff. Cause I'm always like, all right, if I'm doing this detailed [00:42:05] stuff, my, my mind is somewhere else.
[00:42:06] Joseph Hughes: I'm like, I could be shooting some more videos. I can be creating more content. I could be [00:42:10] doing more marketing, which is really like my sweet spot. So like, I would always like procrastinate on [00:42:15] a little details. So now we have the CFO, we have Elizabeth, my, our [00:42:20] COO, who is in charge of the P& L and the finances and all that.
[00:42:23] Joseph Hughes: So we work together on that, [00:42:25] which is awesome because like I was in my own way. Now we're able to make decisions based on the [00:42:30] data in numerous areas of the company and not just like, Oh yeah, I feel like things are going [00:42:35] well, let's, let's hire someone, you know, like now it's much more dialed into the, to the [00:42:40] dollars and cents.
[00:42:41] Joseph Hughes: That's awesome. Now, again, like we had our meeting with our CFO [00:42:45] today and afterwards, you know, Elizabeth and I were slacking and we have our, we have our same page [00:42:50] meeting tomorrow. We have the same page meeting every week. And I was like, yeah, there's a couple of things that we, that they brought up [00:42:55] today that I definitely want to talk about tomorrow.
[00:42:57] Joseph Hughes: So just like anything else in business, as you know, Corey, like [00:43:00] if you want to improve it, you got to put some time and energy into it. If not, it's never [00:43:05] going to improve. So just by spending that time on your finances every week, [00:43:10] you know, it's all it takes. It just, you know, just. Improves it, improves everything.[00:43:15]
[00:43:15] Joseph Hughes: There's a,
[00:43:15] Corey Quinn: there's a principle around like, you know, it gets measured, gets managed and whatnot. And [00:43:20] so, yeah, I mean, you have to, yeah. What advice do you [00:43:25] have for someone who's listening to us, let's say on the agency side, or maybe they're interested [00:43:30] in starting a training company, targeting a niche, like, but they haven't yet.
[00:43:33] Corey Quinn: Maybe they're more of a [00:43:35] generalist. They're targeting kind of everyone, maybe in the local area or just anyone who pay their, you know, [00:43:40] hire them, but they're. struggling from the challenges of being a [00:43:45] generalist, context switching, so on and so forth. But they're thinking about taking a vertical approach.
[00:43:48] Corey Quinn: What, what advice would you [00:43:50] have for them as they're thinking through this decision?
[00:43:52] Joseph Hughes: Yeah, that's, there's a lot that goes into that. One of [00:43:55] my, actually that first mastermind I joined is called the Dynamite Circle. And the, the owner of [00:44:00] that is Dan Andrews. And I think I'm still a member of that. I pay like the grandfather rate from [00:44:05] back in like 2015, but Dan had this.
[00:44:08] Joseph Hughes: thing. And I still remember it. He [00:44:10] called it the onstage test. So if you're going to pick a vertical or pick a niche, [00:44:15] you can envision yourself on the stage of that industry's conference in [00:44:20] five years. Like if that does not excite you, then find another vertical. [00:44:25] So I think that's really important to, to like the vertical that you're [00:44:30] in.
[00:44:30] Joseph Hughes: Like if I were working with like, I, you know, something I don't like, like, I don't [00:44:35] know, chiropractors or something like that.
[00:44:37] Corey Quinn: Yeah. Stocks, bonds.
[00:44:39] Joseph Hughes: Yeah. [00:44:40] Like, right. Municipal bonds. Yeah. Municipal bonds. I was 22 in that [00:44:45] office. There were guys in that office that were 27. That we're driving two cars [00:44:50] that were taking limos to New York city for dinner, like on a Tuesday night, like balling.[00:44:55]
[00:44:55] Joseph Hughes: And I remember like one of the, one of the guy's name is Joe Rodriguez, Jayrod, like just [00:45:00] baller at 27. And I was like, all right, I could stick, I could stick through this and do this for the [00:45:05] next five years and hopefully be like him. I was like, that does not excite me. Like that, like he's [00:45:10] still doing the same thing I'm doing.
[00:45:11] Joseph Hughes: He's dialing for dollars every day. So yeah, it's gotta, it's gotta get [00:45:15] you excited because man, it's hard. Like anything's hard and life is short. We have one trip [00:45:20] around, you know, uh, in this, in this world. So, you know, do something that, that gets you [00:45:25] excited. That's number one. Yeah. I mean, the other, you know, practical things like, you [00:45:30] know, an industry that, that's very, you know, addressable, you can identify the target addressable market.[00:45:35]
[00:45:35] Joseph Hughes: They have like a challenge. They have a pain point. The pain point's big. That's, that's, [00:45:40] I think it's harder, you know, it's harder to sell something that, that people want than something they really need. [00:45:45] And if they have that pain around like, man, I don't know how to do marketing, like marketing, [00:45:50] I hate marketing.
[00:45:50] Joseph Hughes: I keep wasting money on it. And if you have like a new vehicle for them to help solve [00:45:55] that issue, then, then that's awesome. You know, in addition to that, that [00:46:00] networking group that I started. I, I called a bunch of people, like I literally like [00:46:05] Googled contractors in my local area and I called them and I was like, Hey dude, like, [00:46:10] my name is Joe.
[00:46:10] Joseph Hughes: I'm starting this company to do some consulting and marketing for contractors. Like [00:46:15] you mind give me 10 minutes of your time. Tell me about like marketing and what questions you have or [00:46:20] pain points. I have nothing to sell you. And I just did market research like that for a little while and just kind of [00:46:25] gathered like again, looking at the patterns.
[00:46:27] Joseph Hughes: So yeah, try that.
[00:46:29] Corey Quinn: That is [00:46:30] awesome. Great advice. Very actionable. I've got one more question for you. [00:46:35] What's your motivation? I love
[00:46:37] Joseph Hughes: people. I love helping [00:46:40] people. Uh, our purpose as a company and me individually is to equip people and [00:46:45] companies with the tools to transform and grow. And so, you know, marketing is a [00:46:50] vehicle for that.
[00:46:50] Joseph Hughes: Roofing industry is great for that. But beyond that, like being on this, on this [00:46:55] show, like, You know, equipping people with like different, you know, paradigm shifts or different [00:47:00] mindsets or different tools that they can use to, to help them, you know, grow and, and, you [00:47:05] know, fulfill their dreams and have the impact on their families.
[00:47:09] Joseph Hughes: That's awesome. [00:47:10] Yeah. That's impact is big for me. I have a little mastermind called Impact Syndicate. [00:47:15] So we get together a couple times a month and talk about different topics, you know, whether it's [00:47:20] family or time management or health and wellness. You know, how we can be the best version of [00:47:25] ourselves so we can have the biggest impact.
[00:47:26] Joseph Hughes: So yeah, that's what motivates me. That's
[00:47:28] Corey Quinn: awesome. If there's [00:47:30] listeners here who want to reach out to you, get, get involved, [00:47:35] maybe learn more about the mastermind. That sounds very interesting, by the way. What's a, what's a good way to, for [00:47:40] them to reach
[00:47:40] Joseph Hughes: out to you? I'm excited. This is the first time I get to say this, Corey.
[00:47:44] Joseph Hughes: I just [00:47:45] launched our, uh, my, my own personal website. So it's [00:47:50] josephhughes. co. Someone else else had the. com. So I had to settle with the CO. [00:47:55] So yeah, that's just launched a couple weeks ago and there's a bunch of stuff on there. Feel free to reach out [00:48:00] and get in touch. I don't think anyone's, I haven't really publicized it yet.
[00:48:03] Joseph Hughes: So I haven't gotten any like. You [00:48:05] know, contact form submissions through that website. So I'm going to be excited when that first one comes through. Yeah, you're going to have to [00:48:10] ring the
[00:48:10] Corey Quinn: bell.
[00:48:12] Joseph Hughes: He's going to be like Hey man, can you, [00:48:15] uh, can you handle 30 leads a
[00:48:16] Corey Quinn: month? That's [00:48:20] awesome. Thank you so much, Joe, for coming on.
[00:48:22] Corey Quinn: It's been real great learning about your journey and you've [00:48:25] been so generous with your experience and the learnings and lessons along the way. And I think this has been a real [00:48:30] high, high value episode for the listeners. So thank you so
[00:48:32] Joseph Hughes: much for coming on. Thank you, Corey. I [00:48:35] appreciate it. It's been, uh, it's been fun.
[00:48:37] Corey Quinn: All right, folks, that's it for today. I'm Corey [00:48:40] Quinn, and I hope you join me again next time for the Vertical Go To Market [00:48:45] Podcast. If you receive value from the show, I would love a five star rating and review on [00:48:50] Apple Podcasts. Thanks, and we'll see you soon.[00:48:55]